New EU immigration regulations may lead to deportations

[Mistigri]

Article on new HO regulations concerning the rights of EU citizens in the UK:

www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-citizens-uk/

On the face of it, these new rules would appear to give the HO the right to deport any EU citizen without permanent residency rights, who is not currently exercising treaty rights and who does not have private health insurance. This will include many EU spouses of UK citizens who are not currently working and cannot document a 5 year period during which they exercised treaty rights - regardless of the amount of time they have spent in the UK.

This gives a whole new slant to those HO letters suggesting that EU citizens make plans to leave. Might be time for affected EU citizens to consider legal advice :-/

(Weird and hostile way of opening negotiations with the EU27 over migrants' rights - I am coming to the conclusion that May may actually want the negotiations to fail).

It is going to be very difficult indeed for the U.K. to verify the bona fide status of many EU citizens, purely because the UK, unlike most countries, does not keep tabs on who is going in and out of the country.

I've just looked at the online PR form and it has been simplified. I last looked at the paper one in December, and this one doesn't ask me to list all the times I've been out of the country, it just asks to tick a box if I haven't been away for more than 6 months. It also says that if I have P60s, I don't need to bother with bills.
I just thought I'd report the good news...

It would have taken me 15 minutes to fill it in (except my EU passport is due to expire in a few months, so I'd better apply for a new one now, it'd be too good an opportunity to refuse my PR application!).
(Posting on the right thread this time...)

The problem at the moment seems to be that the people for whom the application should be simplest (those in the UK for a very long time) often can't tick the right boxes upfront (eg if they have been students at any point) - and therefore have to do a paper application.

Great! That sounds much better fawful

Ah yes I remember reading that upthread a few days ago now, sorry.

Ok let me get that right.
All the issues with the 85 pages long form is the sheer complexity of it. Trying to see where you 'belong' isn't easy.
E.g. It took me a long time to understand that DH could NOT be a sponsor for me because he is British.
The web based version is quicker BUT only applies to a few people (in effect if you are employed or self employed. Anything else that might include being a student or self sufficient or cpoming as a family member doesn't apply).
And finally, what takes TIME is the gathering of information. That has t changed at all.
For me I can choose between trying to dig out information dating 17 years ago (that's you P60 but also proofs that you were in the country 17 years ago incl electricity bills, telephone bills or bank statements for each of those years. I don't know about you BUT I don't have those anymore...). Or I can apply on the grounds of my last 5 years working here. I am self employed. To give you an idea, the list of things you need to provide to prove you actually have a business is 3,pages long. that's a lot of documents to find for each year, including examples of adverts you have done etc etc (again I never kept any of those why should I??)

So is the form easier? Well the easier part of the form is easier for a number of people (the Ines who had an easier time filling the paperwork anyway).
For the others, they are still on the paper copy anyway.
And everyone still has to do all the hunting for documents that IS the real difficulty of this paperwork exercise.....

I'm afraid to say. It hasn't got easier (I really wish it had btw)

I think the process will be relatively easy for people in continuous salaried work who arrived in the last few years and are good about keeping documents. Harder for those who've been in the UK for many years and may have had periods of being a student, unemployment, travel, being a SAH parent or carer, etc - some will never have reached the PR threshold, some will have reached it then inadvertently lost it like the French academic who was refused PR after the best part of two decades in the UK, and some will qualify theoretically but will be missing a crucial document from years ago.

In contrast our recent experience of a similar procedure in France was very straightforward; we were missing the required school inscription certificates for the kids, but they were quite happy with a simple letter from the schools covering the period concerned. Even the fact that the birthplace on my passport and birth certificate don't match was ultimately not a problem, as the pleasant woman dealing with our case simply used her discretion.

YY about the fact that if you have been employed it's very easy.

Your description of the person who has worked, studied, had a career break was self employed and all of that mixed up is me
And TBH I suspect it will quite a lot of women who have embraced the British ways (esp when my dcs were yong, probably not so much now) where the best choice for a child was for mum to be at home....

Am starting to wonder what effect this might have on my mum, an EU citizen that doesn't have British citizenship (she never got it because until fairly recently her country didn't allow dual nationality). She has been working full time thankfully for the last 5 years at least I think but for most of her life in the UK (nearly 40 years) she only worked part time, sometimes not at all.

I Don't think that working part time is an issue (or at least I haven't seen that in the notes)
They do ask if you are receiving benefits but I'm unsure why.

Pretty sure the only benefits my mum received were foster parent benefits for fostering my brothers. There's so many families we know though with one person being from the EU, its worrying.

I submitted my online application recently and I'm hoping for the best. I had all my p60s for the last 5 years but I also enclosed council tax and utility bills as I'd been advised to do. The fewer loopholes the better as they're still rejecting 30% of applications on minor details. Very nerve racking. I also know quite a few people who won't apply because they've been caring for children and cannot access all the paperwork from years ago when they were working. Horrible and unfair.
Let's not forget that RP is only a document that confirms our position now as EU citizens. After Brexit we are at the mercy of the UK government unless we get a British passport too, or leave the country. Terrible situation for those in that position. And even if things are eventually sorted, the fear and uncertainty we EU citizens are feeling, for the first time, will never leave us.

trying to dig out information dating 17 years ago (that's you P60 but also proofs that you were in the country 17 years ago incl electricity bills, telephone bills or bank statements for each of those years.

Red that is horrendous. I thought you had to list your entries and activity in the UK from the beginning but that you only had to document 5 years? People must be sending bucket loads of paper to the HO

Immigration lawyer Colin Yeo has published four free e-books to help EU citizens with their applications, each dealing with one particular situation (working, student, self-emoloyed, self-sufficient).

www.freemovement.org.uk/free-ebook-application-guides-for-eu-citizens/

Hopefully this will be helpful to someone.

Yes you document 5 years.
But if the time you have 5 years of continuous work is 17 years ago, then that's what you have to provide iyswim.
So it depends a lot of how your life has been and if you have been steadily working until now.
As mistigri said, it's much harder for those who have a patch employment, whatever the reason (usually a mix of looking after children studying/retraining etc...)

I've consulted those Colin Yeo e-books for my DSSs, Mistigri. They are helpful inasmuch as they identify potential pitfalls ahead, and so we are working on avoiding them. This entails spending money. We have also spoken to universities and employers and my feeling is that institutions are not stepping up to their responsibilities to the EU citizens in their midst. It really is up to the individual to work it out for themselves, and pay for it. FOM has, in effect, ended.

Sorry this doesn't help with HO forms, but
"The European Parliament has voted to end visa-free travel for Americans within the EU.

It comes after the US failed to agree visa-free travel for citizens of five EU countries – Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland and Romania – as part of a reciprocity agreement. US citizens can normally travel to all countries in the bloc without a visa.

The vote urges the revocation of the scheme within two months, meaning Americans will have to apply for extra documents for 12 months after the European Commission implements a “delegated act” to bring the change into effect".

The Commission discovered three years ago that the US was not meeting its obligations under the reciprocity agreement but has not yet taken any legal action. The latest vote, prepared by the civil liberties committee and approved by a plenary session of parliament, gives the Commission two months to act before MEPs can consider action in the European Court of Justice".

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/europe-visa-free-travel-americans-european-parliament-vote-a7609406.html

Looks like reciprocal curtailment of visa free travel.

Interesting, woman12345.

The travel freedoms we in the developed world have so long taken for granted are slowly being eroded...

It'll be planes for white men, for a while.

Although I (looking for optimism!) read it as EU standing up for EU values, taking reciprocal action against US's unfair immigration policies?

"It'll be planes for white men, for a while."

Whilst I understand the concerns around the current policy.... I think this is a massive overreach, inflammatory and does not take in to consideration that the impact of the plans is mainly on Europeans (predominantly white). This sort of terminology is really silly and does not help anyone.

The trend is towards walls and borders. Analyzing the tactics adopted by nations in this new climate is almost pointless. It is very hard to understand the politics behind the scenes.

I think that the EU and the U.K. ought to adopt an amnesty policy for families. Where spouses and/or children are involved, Brexit ought to offer people secure status. So a Spanish wife of a British man living in the U.K. prior to the referendum ought not to have her status questioned and should be given PR status without having to provide any paperwork other than her marriage certificate.

Bobochic... that would be a great idea. Then any policies thereafter can be decided on merit.