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Brexit
Original poster

New EU immigration regulations may lead to deportations

597 replies

Mistigri · 27/02/2017 13:02

Article on new HO regulations concerning the rights of EU citizens in the UK:

www.freemovement.org.uk/briefing-legal-status-eu-citizens-uk/

On the face of it, these new rules would appear to give the HO the right to deport any EU citizen without permanent residency rights, who is not currently exercising treaty rights and who does not have private health insurance. This will include many EU spouses of UK citizens who are not currently working and cannot document a 5 year period during which they exercised treaty rights - regardless of the amount of time they have spent in the UK.

This gives a whole new slant to those HO letters suggesting that EU citizens make plans to leave. Might be time for affected EU citizens to consider legal advice :-/

(Weird and hostile way of opening negotiations with the EU27 over migrants' rights - I am coming to the conclusion that May may actually want the negotiations to fail).

OP posts:
juneau · 05/03/2017 17:10

If you want to be sure you can stay in your country of residence you have to become a citizen I have been a EU citizen living in a EU state, the UK for many years, so a citizen already!

You're not a citizen of the UK though, so any change to the treaty that allows you - an EU citizen - to live here can mean that you no longer have a right to live here. Like I said above - if you want to be sure that you can remain in the country you choose to live in then the only way to guarantee that is to get citizenship. Because your current citizenship only guarantees you to right to reside in an EU country - which Britain will cease to be on or around 15th March 2019.

TinselTwins · 05/03/2017 17:15

That's also bollocks, under theresa may dual citizens and natralised citizens have had their UK passport renewals denied with no explanation at all.

With all this bollocks of being a "good" migrant and contributing/intgrating and applying for papers if you wanna be safe…. its bullshit! There is literally no way to be "safe" from this current wave of xenophobia.

juneau · 05/03/2017 17:24

I think the most worrying thing is this 'exercising of treaty rights' business. Because many people just moved here, in good faith, taking it as the right of an EU citizen to settle in whichever nation they decided was best, but I'd never heard of treaty rights until recently - and I've lived and worked in both France and Italy in the past. I think a lot of decent, upstanding, contributing (although not necessarily employed), EU citizens will be caught by this trap. Many of them EU wives and husbands of British citizens who have been living here for years raising British DC with never a thought or a worry for their status. Confident that their EU passport gives them the right to be here and stay here for good. Those are the people who need special consideration and protection.

jaws5 · 05/03/2017 17:27

I'm very scared, worried and disappointed at the opinions I'm reading here. I certainly would never make the same choice I made all those years ago when I came here as a student, met a British man and stayed here to work and raise a family. No way I would now. So be assured that many young, ambitious and curious people from EU countries and beyond are now choosing to go somewhere else. Why come here when ignorance and xenophobia are the going discourse under the guise of "common sense"?
But also be aware of this, my husband and children are as British as you. They are hurt and disappointed at these attitudes and will never forget what we are going through as a family. Very sad.

juneau · 05/03/2017 17:27

And let's face it too - women will be disproportionately disadvantaged as they're much more like to be SAHMs and therefore not working and 'exercising their treaty rights'.

juneau · 05/03/2017 17:35

dual citizens and natralised citizens have had their UK passport renewals denied

I haven't heard anything about that. Can you add a link?

My family are all dual citizens ...

Original poster
Mistigri · 05/03/2017 17:45

You're not a citizen of the UK though, so any change to the treaty that allows you - an EU citizen - to live here can mean that you no longer have a right to live here.

Does anyone else remember how, before June 23rd, a favourite sport of brexiters was pitching up on social media to argue that, under the Vienna Convention, treaty rights would be guaranteed? We had endless debates about this - it was bollocks of course, as we all know now, but it was used endlessly as an argument when it suited them.

Funnily enough, the current script has completely changed Grin.

OP posts:
TinselTwins · 05/03/2017 17:49

www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2014-01-30/home-secretary-pushes-through-controversial-powers-to-make-people-stateless

"The current laws allow May to remove the citizenship of any dual national – including those born inside the UK – with no prior warning and no judicial approval in advance. Those who lose their nationality often find themselves trapped overseas as they fight legal appeals that can last for years."

jaws5 · 05/03/2017 17:52

I remember a Brexiter friend patronizingly telling me not to worry as "nothing will change, we just won't be on the EU". Now on the rare occasions we speak, he tells me not to be a "remoaner"! Quite typical I see!

Original poster
Mistigri · 05/03/2017 17:53

This is the article they used to quote:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11698875/Emigration-Why-British-expats-have-nothing-to-fear-from-Brexit.html

It was on the Official Leave Campaign Script, disseminated to brexit campaigners operating on social media - even after it was debunked by people who actually know that they are talking about.

How times change!

OP posts:
jaws5 · 05/03/2017 17:53

That's shocking Tinsel!

Anon1234567890 · 05/03/2017 17:59

What is it in this policy that is so attractive to a certain type of brexiters? I speak only for myself and you probably think I am a redneck xenophobe, however I don't believe I am. I support Patrizia in that video, I would campaign for her rights in this country.

I want A50 unamended because I believe it will give us the best possible chance of a good deal. I believe every ones rights will be agreed very shortly after A50 is triggered. I believe the more we delay A50 the more uncertainty it brings the country. A thoughtful, equal negotiation will bring the best possible outcome for the UK and ALL its residents.

I have been a EU citizen living in a EU state, the UK for many years, so a citizen already!
The EU is NOT a state, the UK is a state. You cannot be a citizen of the EU state. You can only be (or not be) a citizen of the UK which is a member of the EU. We are leaving the EU because enough people believe it is trying to become a state and we do not want that.

Original poster
Mistigri · 05/03/2017 18:02

I believe the more we delay A50 the more uncertainty it brings the country

And yet fighting the Lords' amendment will have the practical effect of delaying A50.

I ask again: what is it about keeping EU citizens in a state of uncertainty that is so important to you that it is worth a delay in the brexit process?

OP posts:
jaws5 · 05/03/2017 18:10

you cannot be a citizen of the EU state I said I'm a EU citizen living in a EU state. What part of that is wrong?

Anon1234567890 · 05/03/2017 18:12

And yet fighting the Lords' amendment will have the practical effect of delaying A50 As I said getting a good deal is the number one priority and a few days stopping the unelected Lords is worth it. However this delay is increasing the time before we can assure people of their right to reside, so I wish the Lords would stop it.

Anon1234567890 · 05/03/2017 18:15

I said I'm a EU citizen living in a EU state. What part of that is wrong?

You are a citizen of a state that is a member of the European Union. You live in the UK state that is a member of the European Union.

Their is no such thing as the EU state.

juneau · 05/03/2017 18:18

Er okay - but I fail to see how that article relates to law-abiding EU dual citizens. Personally, as a dual citizen, reading that article doesn't make me worried.

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 18:20

Anyway... I don't agree with much redpoll is saying, but.

You do not speak for all british expats.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/0d0f426c-fe99-11e6-96f8-3700c5664d30

Many will be thinking along similar lines to me, like the gentleman above.

woman12345 · 05/03/2017 18:20

a few days stopping the unelected Lords is worth it

It's called parliamentary sovereignty.
Nothing in the referendum about getting rid of that.

But then MPs are representatives not delegates and brexiteers seem to have already changed that one.

TinselTwins · 05/03/2017 18:22

Er okay - but I fail to see how that article relates to law-abiding EU dual citizens. Personally, as a dual citizen, reading that article doesn't make me worried

Because:
A. They don't need to tell you why! or go through any judicial process to do so
and
B. Just because your other country of citizenship isn't on their current hit list, that doesn't mean it'll remain that way! Waiting until they target your other country of citizenship to give a shit about this will be too late!
and
C. People saying "if they just ("just" LOL) naturalised, they'ld be safe". Are wrong. A naturalised citizen is no longer an equal, under May they are now a second class type of citizen

Slipperyknickers · 05/03/2017 18:24

I agree with June and anon.

jaws5 · 05/03/2017 18:25

Their is no such thing as the EU state I have never mentioned "the EU state", only you and your fellow Brexiters do, ad nauseam. I am very aware that the EU is formed by member states, of which the UK is one Confused

Anon1234567890 · 05/03/2017 18:26

It's called parliamentary sovereignty
And I don't dispute their right to do it (don't think anyone is), I just wish they wouldn't, or am I not allowed that opinion?

Its also parliamentary sovereignty for the elected commons to reject the amendment or for TM to appoint another 200 Lords, or call an election and get a massive majority. Swings and roundabouts.

jaws5 · 05/03/2017 18:26

I said "a EU state" as in a member state, which you've chosen to read as The EU State!