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Brexit

Guardian : is chlorinated chicken about to hit our shelves?

77 replies

lottieandmia · 08/02/2017 13:18

Has anyone seen this?

www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/29/britain-us-trade-deal-gm-food-eu-rules

I'm so worried. Most people just didn't / don't see the far reaching consequences of leaving the EU.

OP posts:
Kaija · 08/02/2017 17:26

I'm sure you understand the concept of likelihood, Ourblanche.

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 17:27

Judging from May’s evasive reply

When does May not give an evasive reply? Well probably not to her Tory cronies in private.

OurBlanche · 08/02/2017 17:28

And I am equally sure you know the meaning of opinion, Kaija!

Kaija · 08/02/2017 17:32

Yes, and that the opinion of the NFU's director of strategy is likely to have rather more relevance to the outcome on this than those of Internet forum users.

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 08/02/2017 17:36

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2017-01-24/debates/7E2FCDD9-C80D-4488-92C5-1783E703AC45/LeavingTheEUAnimalWelfareStandardsInFarming

Interesting chat if anyone is interested on wading through.

"The EU legislation covers mandatory labelling on the provenance of eggs and beef, the labelling of some poultry meats and the country of origin of certain meats. That, however, could be improved by introducing method-of-production labelling on how meat and dairy animals are reared, whether the intensive method or the slaughter method.

Yes, we are a nation of animal lovers. Some other countries criticise us for being silly about animals, but I certainly judge the civilisation of any country on how they treat animals. This is a real opportunity to improve the welfare of animals and how we treat animals on farms. I pay tribute to our farmers. One reason why I campaigned not to continue as a member of the European Union in the ’70s was that I thought the farmers got a raw deal. I am very happy that we are to leave the European Union. We will make a success of it."

"Brexit will allow us to protect endangered species from being transited through the UK, and to ban imports of wildlife trophies, body parts and extracts of bodies. It will allow us to have stronger regulation of animal testing and research, banning that which is causing severe suffering.

UK farmers must not be undermined by lower welfare production units operating abroad. It is vital that we get labelling right. I tried to have a debate on labelling. The EU labelling directive is so tortuous that many years are spent achieving little. The traffic lights system on some of our products was voluntary. Italy kicked up a huge stink because it did not want olive oil labelled as a high-fat product, because it felt that that was discriminatory. I think most of us are fully aware of what we are buying when we buy a bottle of oil or a pat of butter.

Leaving the EU will allow us to be able to take things into our own hands. It will allow us to limit the diseases that sometimes come across from other countries. The Schmallenberg virus, for example, is now widespread across much of the EU. It was not made a notifiable disease, despite Governments seeking to limit its spread. As a result, the US banned bovine semen exports from the EU, including from our significant UK export market, despite our stocks being less badly hit. The EU standing veterinary committee operates through a bureaucracy. With foot and mouth disease, its rules caused delayed response times and exacerbated the risk of spread"

" bring forward legislation to ban live export for slaughter or fattening that can take effect as soon as the UK leaves the EU. That trade is far smaller than it used to be. I believe it would have been banned years ago if that power had rested in Westminster rather than in Brussels. The referendum vote means that the House will soon have control over that decision once again. We should seize the opportunity to end that trade"

"As we have heard, enforcement of welfare rules in Europe is patchy, which means that there is a risk that animals will suffer from extremes of temperature or be left without sufficient food, water or rest. We cannot always be confident even that welfare rules regulating slaughter in the country of destination will be complied with"

" As with sow stalls, which were banned some years ago, pigs about to give birth cannot turn around in those crates. Cramped conditions mean that the sow can barely move and there is not even enough room for her to lie down, much less carry out the nest-building behaviour normally seen in pigs about to give birth under more natural conditions"

"Shockingly, two years after those stalls were banned on the grounds of cruelty, six EU countries were still using them unofficially. Our farmers are already being undercut under EU rules by countries that are not compliant with welfare standards"

etc etc etc

So many opportunities to make things better.

OurBlanche · 08/02/2017 17:37

I haven't seen or heard what he said Kaija, just your interpretation of it!

But I do live and work in a very rural area, lots of farms, dairy, arable, mixed and niche. And no one here has started to talk about lowering standards!

Forgive me for going with what I know!

Kaija · 08/02/2017 17:43

Here you go, Ourblanche:

""We believe a fundamental principle of future trade negotiations should be to ensure a level playing field for British farmers in order for them to be competitive, profitable and productive in the future," he said."

www.farminguk.com/News/Trump-US-UK-Brexit-trade-deals-raise-concern-among-farmers_45462.html

OurBlanche · 08/02/2017 17:50

Have another think! That is reported in FARMING press. They FEAR it will become reality.

Which suggests that FARMERS don't want it and will fight it.

So, as nothing has yet been decided, it is your interpretation that it is a bad thing, it will happen, and mine that it is a good thing, farmers and others are already protesting it, it may not happen.

Interpretation and opinion... what a statement means can have as many interpretations as readers!

Kaija · 08/02/2017 17:59

"it is your interpretation that it is a bad thing, it will happen, and mine that it is a good thing, farmers and others are already protesting it, it may not happen."

Are you talking about the trade deal here?

Figmentofmyimagination · 08/02/2017 18:01

Face it we're fucked. Once the price increases start to bite, buying British will be the new 'organic'. Out of reach except to wealthy consumers who can afford a conscience.

OurBlanche · 08/02/2017 18:02

I give in!

No. That has not happened and cannot for some time yet.

I am talking about the process, the debate, discussion, decision making etc etc etc.

You have one opinion, one perspective and I have another.

Neither of us are right, nor can we be.

We can only have opinions based on what we know, read, hear, understand.

I am, it seems, more optimistic than you are about this issue!

Badcat666 · 08/02/2017 18:10

Its just good old fashioned scare mongering.

The UK wouldn't lower it's current welfare or food standards. We would still have to trade with the EU (which will be our biggest trader) so I think it will be a cold night in hell if we suddenly stoop to the USA standards.

We wouldn't risk millions of trade with EU countries (and other non EU countries that ask for EU standards) just to kiss up the the USA FFS.

Next someone will suggest building a wall to stop it all coming in.

It cannot come in at the moment as we are still part of the EU! It will not come once we leave because the UK will not risk it's current welfare and food standards.

Kaija · 08/02/2017 18:12

Ourblanche, I'm afraid there really is no evidence for your optimism on this if the most you have to go on is the intuition that farmers will fight the NFU on higher standards against their own interests.

A more hopeful point would be that we are still going to need to trade with the EU and anything destined for export there will needs to retain current standards of production.

Kaija · 08/02/2017 18:20

Interesting to view this in the context of TTIP negotiations on food safety, remembering that we are one country, not 28, so have considerably less leverage.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/18/prospect-ttip-deal-undermining-eu-food-standards-gmos?client=safari

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 18:43

There is no reason why we couldn't have higher standards, but I honestly can't see it with the present government. Their only objective seems to do things as cheaply as possible, to make the fattest profits for themselves and their cronies.

lottieandmia · 08/02/2017 19:15

Quite Peregrina. How did we end up with this shit situation? I'm going to encourage my dc to emigrate.

OP posts:
DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 08/02/2017 19:36

Nice glossing over the above Hmm which clearly states EU farms ignoring welfare standards. Confused and all the wonderful new improvements we now have the opportunity to implement, now we are going to be free of EU shackles. Smile

DebbieDownersGiveItARest · 08/02/2017 19:37

Maybe you see it like that P because you simply hate the Tories, and it doesnt matter if Jesus came to earth and became a Tory and said he would break bread and fish to feed us all - you would still say he was a distrust-worth Tory Hmm

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 19:40

No Debbie I would not say that, and please don't cast a slur on Christianity, because I am a practising Christian and try to take the teachings seriously. I look to how people behave not easy words coming out of their mouths.(You will find Jesus said plenty about hypocrisy.)

Corcory · 08/02/2017 21:50

Our farmers abide by the EU welfare rules but many in mainland Europe don't. Our farmers haven't lowered their standards to 'beat' the cheap imports from the EU and nor should/would we to have a trade deal with the US. As was said up thread we want much higher standards and that is exactly what we will get when we leave the EU.
I believe we will sell our farming products at a premium as high welfare pesticide free products and the US and EU will want to buy them for this reason.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 08/02/2017 21:53

believe we will sell our farming products at a premium as high welfare pesticide free products and the US and EU will want to buy them for this reason.

That sounds great, what will people in this country who cant afford these premium products eat?

Honestly curious, i would love our standards to stay high or become higher

Peregrina · 08/02/2017 21:58

Our farmers abide by the EU welfare rules but many in mainland Europe don't.

Which means that the EU has not stopped us from promoting animal welfare. The end result of withdrawing, far from being able to introduce reforms because the EU prevented us from doing so, is that we will no longer have any leverage over poor practice within the EU.

As for premium products - as now, some of us can afford to shop at Waitrose or farmers markets, others can't. It could go either way, I feel.

Tardigrade001 · 08/02/2017 22:05

I can choose to buy better quality meat - and do - but once you let in cheap low standard chlorinated stuff, it will be everywhere - restaurants, fast food, sandwiches. And school dinners.

lottieandmia · 09/02/2017 07:03

Nightmare :(

OP posts:
OurBlanche · 09/02/2017 08:27

I'm afraid there really is no evidence for your optimism I too would be afraid if I thought pessimism was the only possible truth!

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