Can we have a NI Brexit thread?

[Burntcustard]

I am ex-NI, now living in London after 20 years away. Having grown up near the border, with memories of nighttime evacuations and and the constant hum of helicopters, I couldn't wait to leave.

I look at the implications of Brexit and I'm worried. May may say that she wants to have no hard border, but how will that be possible with leaving the customs union? The only practical solution I can see to that is to have the border at the ferry ports.

What is the mood over there? Do the DUP still think Brexit is great?

They have even stopped little grannies travelling from London to Scotland

I've just checked their conditions and it seems you're right about Ireland, Ryanair require a passport on all international flights now. Any photo ID is acceptable on UK domestic flights though, as it is with most (if not all) other airlines. www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful-info/help-centre/faq-overview/Travel-documentation/Are-driving-licenses-accepted-as-a-travel-document-on-Ryanair-flights

Sorry I was being a bit naughty and quoting a Daily Mail story. I don't remember the detail, but I suspect that the Granny didn't have a photo bearing driving licence either. I don't either because I have had my licence for so long, it is one which predates the introduction of DLs with a photo. But I do have a passport, and didn't take it with me when I last went to Ireland, but that was some years ago.

There must be some sharing of information. A friend of mine from Donegal travelled down south into Northern Ireland and parked in a disabled parking space. She has a child with a disability and parking paperwork for disabled parking bays in Ireland. I forget what the issue was but she received a letter from NI about it. I can't remember if there was a fine. So they were able to track her in some way.

I think NI & ROI share vehicle information. Mainly so NI drivers have to pay tolls on the roads around Dublin and speeding fines etc. I may be wrong about this.

I'm in NI and was also pretty fucked off at how little regard how membership of the EU just makes the NI/ROI relationship easier and how complicated it was going to become with a no vote. And of course the amount of money that the EU has pumped into peace projects.

Some Unionists may get pissed off about the border being between the NI and GB, but in terms of practicalities it makes more sense to have to show a passport/ ID going that way, particularly as you already have to anyway, than to put a land border in place.

I think NI & ROI share vehicle information.

That might have to stop post-Brexit if the UK cannot (or refuses to) guarantee it will adhere to EU data protection laws.

Once again, the emerging facts appear to be diametrically opposite to what Mrs May is guffing. Unless losing such information makes NI (and by extension the rUK) more secure ....

This remains my biggest worry and sadness about this whole thing.

I'd recommend watching the (long, but very very interesting) Northern Ireland Committee hearing on this subject - it features Michael Dougan of Uni of Liverpool EU Law Dept and his colleagues. They talk about the different types of borders - the goods border and the people border, and possible ways forward for each. For instance, an alternate solution for people could be identity checks at point of access to public services in the UK - but there are obviously serious issues with that approach too. Leaving the customs union almost certainly means some kind of border for goods though. It's such a mess.

parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/f3b60405-0d2f-4c93-8ba0-1edcc0f02c9a

It's a while since I watched this but it gets pretty fiery towards the end! They touch on other issues like trade agreements and timetables for what happens next, as well as the impact on peace from Brexit.

From the looks of it the NI affairs committee are having a series of hearings on the subject of the border - I haven't listened but may be of interest.

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/northern-ireland-affairs-committee/

As a final link dump, in case anyone hasn't seen them, Michael Dougan (who is from NI) is an EU consitutional law expert and has some excellent videos on Brexit implications for the UK and EU. www.youtube.com/channel/UCwhYDFEl4zV991Ei_drGLMA

I watched Michael Dougan shortly after the Referendum vote. It was a debate mainly about Scottish issues, but the whole twenty minutes was mostly, this issue is an unknown, the law is not clear on that, this will have to be decided. So Theresa May thinks she can get it sorted out in two years? She's a bigger fool than she looks.

I was born in England, although identify as British, having spent much of my childhood in Wales, and quite honestly, if the country (England) does go tits up I won't be sorry. Because of the way the English voted for Brexit and because of their stupid way of putting Tory Governments in. Sadly, I don't run to any Irish ancestors myself and DH's Irish granny turned out to have been born in England.

extrabiotin I posted it as he's a colourful tory with history 'freedom association' ( not the sort of freedom you think) and voted against equal pay at Westminster.
There's a new Digital Economy Bill which alludes to independent assemblies having their power curtailed, that I think means NI, Scotland and Wales,
and I'm thinking they're trying to sneak that in while NI is under direct rule before the election.
But I'm sure they wouldn't be so sneaky/ evil/ totalitarian/colonial

think NI & ROI share vehicle information. Mainly so NI drivers have to pay tolls on the roads around Dublin and speeding fines etc. I may be wrong about this.

Pretty sure they share UK- wide vehicle information. When we went round fhe Dublin toll motorway last year, I googled and it seems that they will chase cars with UK plates for the toll, but don't bother with foreign ones (we have French plates).

(I did pay, because I support road pricing on principle, but I did wonder!)

DH's Irish granny turned out to have been born in England

My dad's 'Irish mother' turned out the same, Peregrina.
So HE can have an Irish passport, if it comes to it, but I'm just too late to. My DP is English and Scottish through and through, so he's a dead end as well.

I don't know what the fuck we'll do. I don't really actively want to leave the UK at all, but I just don't know if a Brexit Britain will be a place I can or will want to live in either...

Some Unionists may get pissed off about the border being between the NI and GB, but in terms of practicalities it makes more sense to have to show a passport/ ID going that way, particularly as you already have to anyway, than to put a land border in place.

You don't have to. The planes require it, the ferries don't, and it isn't a legal requirement. I suspect it would be more practical than a land border but it would still be a change to the status quo and an imposition.

So could Ireland join Schengen then, so there would be passport Controls but only for non-EU/EEA/EFTA citizens? An intriguing thought.

The problem is as well, that this isn't a matter for the UK/ROI to figure out. The border isn't between NI and ROI, it's between NI and the EU so whatever fudge is figured out will have to meet EU requirements.

A PP said that at least WM was consulting with the Scottish/Welsh governments - they're not consulting, they are telling them that their opinion doesn't matter.

I live in NI. Before the brexit vote i would have liked the romanticism of a united Ireland. I certainly feel more Irish than British but obviously the logistics and the whole not being able to afford us thing was an issue. If I'd been faced with a border poll my decision would have been very difficult.

Since the vote? I'd vote for a UI in the morning. I'm not alone. We obviously aren't wanted by England and Wales (Scotland is slightly different), the vote is potentially going to lead to economic ruin, violence and a fucking mess of a semi solid border etc. ROI can't afford us, no, but if we were leaving the UK I'm sure the tory's could pay a nice dowry-of-sorts? After all this whole mess is DC's fault.

What makes me soooo mad is the sheer arrogance of the DUP (DUP arrogance is certainly a 'theme' up here) urging it's supporters to vote in favour of brexit, just so they can feel that little bit more British, with no regard to all the EU money their grass root farmers are getting.

Still, if you did become part of RoI, the EU money would still flow.

Mc Guiness's potential replacement
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/michelle-o-neill-seen-as-likely-successor-if-mcguinness-retires-1.2940781
Does she want UI too?

There is no way ROI will take on NI unless there is a committment for say 30 years to pay for it. Maybe Theresa will agree to something like the Marshall Plan to get rid of that headache inducing Province. She has no interest in NI, neither have any of the Tories.

A United Ireland is only aspirational, and will be for another generation at least. As long as the GFA is not scuppered by Brexit.

neither have any of the Tories.
Or only when, as now, they need a few extra votes because of a slender majority.

@Peregrina, That's politics, it is a slimy game, but anyway, forget about a UI anytime soon no matter what.

Although for Brexit and ROI/NI purposes it seems like UI is the ideal solution. Tell that to the Unionists though and there is your answer for another generation at least.

Anyway, things have moved on now for the better in lots of ways. I just really worry that the resignation of McGuinness and the upcoming electioneering will open old wounds. I hope it doesn't. But who knows.

It is and always was a kind of fragile peace. Hope I am wrong.

Hoping for continued peace too. EU is watching too, they will support NI right to GFA: Guy Verhofstadt said:
One of the greatest challenges in the forthcoming negotiations will be the acute need to find a solution for Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, so that a new hard border dividing them is avoided. I am committed to doing my upmost to ensure, from the European Union side, that the specific needs of Ireland and Northern Ireland are prioritised in the negotiations to come.

The MO of sinn fein is for a UI, so yes, Michelle O'Neill would want that too. They didn't expect it any time soon, but brexit has definitely moved it closer to the table.

30 years? That's some pay off.
10 years maybe.
Alas, not a reality just yet. Instead we're headed for a shitstorm... not that a UI wouldn't bring one of it's own.

There's also the issue of the almost inevitable scottish referendum though. IF (and it's a big IF) Scotland leave the UK the unionists wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

Aside from all this Teresa May doesn't really seem to be remotely competent in any way.

@woman
The GFA is an International Treaty. Not going to be easy to scupper that for Brexit reasons methinks.

Woman of course she wants UI too, everyone in Sinn Feinn does. It won't ever happen without another armed conflict though, even if democratically voted. Too many hard liners still around on both sides in NI. A hard border here is unworkable ... inconceivable. They will have to work out another way.

@Cleebope

I agree, a hard border is just not on. And it probably won't happen either, since the obvious solution is to have checks on the mainland.

But uh oh, DUP will go nuts. But will they really? The complexity of any other solution is rubbish IMV.

Many Unionists cross the border every day back and forth. some never will, ok, but practically it is the best answer.

But why it has come to this is beyond belief. So unnecessary really when you think about it. And the potential for more trouble is immense.

But Westminster doesn't seem to care.

The DUP can suck it up. They supported Brexit in the first place, the dickheads.