Why people voted leave if anybody wants to knoe

[RBeer]

So I asked the smartest friend whom I have known for many a year why the majority of people voted leave. He told me to watch the big short movie. So I did. And on the 5th watch I found it. So , not that it matters, but I thought it good to share in case others could learn.
"People want an authority to tell them how to value things but they choose this authority not based on facts or results,” “They choose it because it seems authoritative or familiar.”

I am totally bemused how living in another country makes you unpatriotic full stop. People live and work abroad for all sorts of reasons.

my point is very simple - I don't think people who haven't lived in this country for 15 years should vote in a referendum.+ My dh has now been out of the UK for nearly 15 years, most of them in consecutive Armed Forces postings abroad. Should his right to vote be calculated from the point he retired from HM Forces and then got a job abroad, funded partially by HMG as part of 28 members of the same alliance (not EU), or from when he was first appointed overseas? What's your take on it Honeybadger*, should he be disenfranchised by the dint of his service? What about the FO bods? If they have been abroad for 15 years as many have working for the Foreign Office, should they not be allowed to vote?

He obviously paid tax on his salary from the RN, and now does so on his HMG pension. We will be returning to the UK in just under 3 years.

Surely people in the armed forces keep their vote when posted overseas?

www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad

The EU is a nice idea but it doesn't work. All it has resulted in is making the Mediterrenean countries into third world nations crippled by debt and and unemployment, and caused a mass population shift from East to West causing a brain drain of scientists, engineers, teachers, doctors in the Eastern nations and causing massive strain on public services and welfare in the West.

" causing massive strain on public services and welfare in the West."

Not according to all of the available evidence.

In real terms it is causing strain though. The demand is simply outstripping the supply of new homes, hospitals, and schools.

Immigration isn't to blame for increasing housing costs, under building for 30 years is to blame and the removal of social housing.

Immigration actually causes waiting times in hospitals to go down as immgrants tend to be healthy, look up the healthy migrant effect.

The vast majority of British school children get their first choice primary school.

Most of the things attributed to being an impact of immigration are actually and impact of austerity or counter factual news articles.

EU immigrants are under represented on the JSA claimant count and are calculated as a group to be net contributors to the economy.

Immigration or austerity, the hospitals, schools, homes, etc, are simply not being built to keep up with the population demand.

What about the brain drain on the Eastern nations and the Mediterrenean nations crippled by debt and unemployment?

WrongTrouser, they do but some, like my df, when they retire from the military go on to other roles not in the armed forces, but related and still serving the country (trying not to be too specific as I don't want to be outed). In the case of df, he did that between age 55 and 65 and then stayed in that country. In role, he was still paying significant income tax in the UK, because it was still a UK post even though he was carrying out the role abroad at a place where there were multiple nations involved.

In a lot of ways the med nations are the causes of their own fate, fiscally they have been mismanaged for a long time, especially Greece.

BTW net EU immigration into the country this year is a 0.27% increase, I don't think its to do with "not keeping up with demand" it sounds nice, and its the answer that many buy into, its just not the case and is too simplistic. Its interesting as well that significant falls in immigration would not lead to improved public services because the fall in funding available is not offset by the fall in demand.

I think the brain drain is a bit of red herring to be honest, isn't the mantra of the leave campaign that we want to keep immigration but only those who contribute.

The most able, especially those with skills in shortage areas will get in, so the brain drain will continue.

Have you seen Stewart Lee's bit on this?

Nobettername, Sounds like what dh is doing now as a retired officer, but directly employed by the organisation in question!

scaryteacher, I was thinking the same. I wonder if it's the same organisation.

Shhhh, your not supposed to talk about SPECTRE

Ex pats living abroad for 15 years should not have a vote here.
They made their choice. They chose to live elsewhere. Get over it.
They are just miffed because they might (just might) be affected by Brexit. They are selfishly thinking of what is best for them. They are not thinking that this country needs its freedom from the EU.
We need to think, act and legislate for ourselves.
If this affects a few UK citizens who choose somewhere else as their home. Well, they should have thought about that earlier.

they might (just might) be affected by Brexit

Because they are the group of British citizens most likely to be personally affected by Brexit.

Many of these people, if they are retired, are still UK taxpayers and still rely upon reciprocal EU agreements for healthcare etc.

Lots of people work and live abroad with not one clue that someone was going to move the goalposts

They should have had a vote trying and they were promised one, crying democracy whilst disenfranchising people for your own political ends is duplicitous.

Its OK though, cause actually brexit voters are going to get very little of what they thought they were voting for. FOM will continue is some form, we will have the appearance of control etc etc. All foreign nationals here will be guaranteed their current rights, no one is going home. We get to make our own laws, but we aren't out of the ECHR, and we'll probably abide by most EU set laws for decades anyway.

They are selfishly thinking of what is best for them

As, indeed, I would say 99% if not 100% of voters did so. How many people actively thought - I will vote [whichever way] with the expectation that I will be worse off financially, socially etc. for 10/15/20 years? A handful of people maybe.

trying I hold dual Polish and S. African citizenship. I was allowed to vote as a Commonwealth citizen but not as an EU national, when in practice I use my Polish nationality to work and live here. "We need to think, act and legislate for ourselves", indeed. Every resident fucker from Australia had a vote if they wanted one.

Yes the Mediterrenean nations have been financially mismanaged for a long time but it doesn't get away from the fact the Mediterrenean countries were ushered into the single currency by the EU without any sort of referedum for the citizens of those nations. It was decided by bearaucrats in Brussels even though there was evidence that those economies were not ready to enter a common currency. It has completely wrecked their economies and messed up the lives of one or two generations with mass unemployment.

As for brain drain, it is very much a real problem. Just imagine if all the teachers, doctors, engineers from this country all sought employment in other countries. The effect would be felt very close to home. The EU should be encouraging these professionals to stay in their home countries.

By that logic, trying, EU citizens living here should have been allowed a vote. DH is an EU citizen, living here for years and a higher-rate tax payer and yet had no right to a vote. Yes, he could apply for citizenship, but we just don't have the thousands of pounds it would cost to apply for this just sitting there. I doubt if most households with young children and a mortgage etc do. Further, if movement is restricted, there could be a time where Brits need to apply for visas to visit other countries and that could prove problematic if needing to go abroad to visit his ageing parents etc.

As others have said, people made decisions based on circumstances which have been changed without having the right to have a say in these changes. How dare those who will be affected least tell them to just suck it up? I think they've a right to be angry.

Otoh a plus of Brexit is that brother-in-law owns a house in a major EU city whose value increased by 50% overnight as a direct result of the vote.

"The EU should be encouraging these professionals to stay in their home countries"

But that isn't what the vote was about, skilled people will be allowed in, so we will still have Doctors, Nurses and all sorts of other professions will still be granted permission to live here.

Entry into the euro was part of many parties policies and was negotiated by the governments of individual nations, not Brussles. You are also forgetting that many countries actually benefited from entry into the euro, and that many of these economies have historically had major issues.

What nations have benefited from the Euro?

In most nations the decision was taken over the heads of citizens.