If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

But then there's the ceremony and the oath. That's one thing that makes it feel very 'not just admin' to me. It's presented as something much bigger. I can see how to some people it's a formality, but that can't be expected to hold true for everyone.

I'm sorry, but you've taken other statements you made also in different contexts (such as the 'administrative' one) to try to excuse the cumulative impact of statements on the same subject in consecutive posts. It's not disingenuous at all. It's pointing out what you said - you don't know why people wouldn't get citizenship if they didn't have to renounce their own nationality, that if they wanted it they could save, and that if they didn't save they clearly didn't want it enough.

Absolutely and 100%. Mango has very clearly blamed people who are now in limbo for their own predicament. Nothing remotely disingenuous about saying that if someone wanted to gain citizenship they could save for it, as with most things. It was victim blaming, and factually incorrect too. I'm delighted she reposted a selection of the deleted material (though HQ might not be) because even in incomplete form it proves my point and yours beautifully.

Jassy, I'd find the ceremony and the oath very difficult to do. Same as I'd find bowing to Royalty very difficult to do.

I will be luck if I get to do it though, I guess (i.e. if I get that far into the process)

For those few (luckily few) people saying: Why did you not safe up? Why did you not "put a ring on it" I'd like to reiterate that some people, like me, were not allowed to get British Nationality without losing their birth nationality. Also, I have lived in 5 different countries, can you imagine "putting a ring on it" (i.e. changing nationality) every time you move?!

I guess lots of Europeans thought we could stay here.

• We did not see it coming that Theresa May would take away the right to get Nationality through marriage in 2015

• We did not see Brexit coming (David Fucking Cameron did not see it coming! The press did not! We knew it was possible but it seemed unlikely)

• We did not see it coming that we'd need to prove, retrospectively, that we should have had 5 years private health insurance

It's all this combined that puts us in a fix, not our inability to save up £1000 for the paperwork. it's more complex than that. The above 3 things together mean that the rug has been pulled away from under our feet.

Don't worry, I (we) will get up again. Always bounce back.

But for now it's a hassle and a worry.

And FWIW, I am a complete Anglophile and have happily sung along to Land Of Hope and Glory in the Albert Hall, made many cricket teas, learned the rules of cricket and rugby and done charity fund raising cake sales. How much more British can one get .

Emotionally I had put a ring on it. Now for the admin.

Concerning my love of all things British, the whole proms thing and Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem etc. are all tainted for me now, as I imagine them to now be the anthems of the Brexiteers and Ukippers and immigrant-haters

Ruby I feel totally the same about those songs. They used to make me feel emotional, thinking about the Britain that stood up against Britain, the land of democratic tradition etc

Now they are tainted and make me feel slightly sick

Its certainly not a land of hope or glory at the moment

Ruby
Yes all that but also the fact that coming here I did buy into the British values of 'an open society welcoming people with all their heritage and traditions' I bought into the idea that Britain was a welcoming country to 'foreigners'.

Well I feel that I've been VERY BADLY misold something that has never existed.
And if I had any idea of how things would actually pan out and how British people actually feel about foreigners, which I assume is what they are telling us, I would never have settled down here.
Now I feel that, when I was of some use, they were happy to have me here. Now that it looks like I'm not, the. I should just f** away back to where I am coming from.
The total lack of RESPECT is astonishing TBH.

Fwiw, I'm living in a full on Leave area and even my IL have voted Leave. So it is a very raw subject for me atm....

Completely agree Martians, I used to tell my kids how lucky they were to have been born in the most tolerant country on Earth. I won't be heard saying that again. I can feel hostility to my accent on an almost daily basis. I now feel like I stupidly bought into 'brand Britain', the UK as a very tolerant place, and that this tolerance was skin-deep, a marketing gimmick.
I said it on another thread, in our household it's British (ex)-DP who dissuaded me from applying for citizenship five years ago (I had wanted to get the right to vote in the UK, and had even taken the life in the UK test). When I told him how much it was (£800) he objected to money being spent on my lofty right to vote as opposed to family things (we did both earn the same). Of course he personally didn't care, he's British and never votes (inc in the referendum).

Ruby, one Scottish MSP's crossed her finger while taking the oath. Maybe you could do this, if you didn't want to give an oath to hereditary King or Queen. Even if God himself came down from heaven, said abrakedabra while anointing them through His representative servants to be special in their seed and breed forever. You would technically be taking the oath.

"Republicans have expressed opposition to a compulsory oath made to an unelected monarch.

Tony Benn in 1992 stated, when he took the oath, “As a dedicated republican, I solemnly swear…”. In the 1997 election, "As a committed republican, under protest, I take the oath required of me by law, under the Parliamentary Oaths Act of 1866, to allow me to represent my constituency … Later stating, "When one looks at the oaths of a Privy Counsellor, a Member of Parliament and the Sovereign at the coronation, they throw an interesting light on the obligations by which we are bound. The reality is that nobody takes an oath to uphold democracy in Britain. The Queen takes an oath to govern the country and uphold the rights of the bishops. We take an oath to the Queen. Nobody in the House takes an oath to uphold democracy in Britain."
Kevin McNamara stated: "The era in which it was thought to be appropriate for legislators to set a political or religious test for those deemed acceptable to enter the parliamentary club has long since passed. … The only test for inclusion and membership of this House should be the will of the electorate, freely expressed."
Dennis Skinner stated, “I solemnly swear that I will bear true and faithful allegiance to the Queen when she pays her income tax”.
Tony Banks was seen with his fingers crossed when he took the oath in 1997.[12]
Richard Burgon in 2015 prefaced his oath by expressing his support for constitutional change for an elected head of state: "As someone that believes that the head of state should be elected I make this oath in order to serve my constituents".[30]"

A few from Wiki.

I suspect if I tried any of those at a citizenship ceremony I would not receive my certificate of citizenship.

I'm sorry Rufus but you are wrong.
This is very much a Land of Hope and Glory. Much more hopeful now after the referendum victory.
I am amused by posters on here who want British nationality but won't/ don't want to give up their original/ birth nationality. You give the impression that you don't really want to be British. You want it for convenience.
Well it is not compulsory.

trying I'll tell you how it looks like from my side.
I'm not sure if I will get the permanent residence card or not. If I don't, I can't get the British citizenship. I have no choice.
If I don't get it, I am likely to be deported back to my home country.

I've been here for 20 years, married to a Brit who never bothered to learn my own language 'because we were all living in the uk and there was no need. We would never have to go and live where I'm coming from'.
I have two dcs who are just starting secondary no where near adults and independant.

If (or when?) I am deported, I'm loosing my home and my family.
And as British xitizens, DH and my two dcs are losing their family and their mum/wife.

Now, could you explain to my two dcs that the prospect of loosing their mum is 'Hope and Glory'?
Could you also explain to them how great it will be to see their family exploding?
Oh and also could you explain to them how we should have been more organised and get xxx when there was NO REASON to do so because the agreement we were all working with was that, me staying in the uk as a European was normal and legal and disintegration need any special paperwork.
Will you also explain to them how this is respectful of the 20 years I have spent here, being a full member of the society, incl paying taxes etc... but somehow about 30% of the population (that's about the 52%that voted) have decide to change the rule and make me persona no grata. Bit somehow this is also totally in line with the idea of tolerance and how tolerant Britain is.?
Will you come and reassure them when they can't sleep at night?

I think ignoring the goady fuckers might be the most productive response, Martians. Someone who declares this unequivocally the Land of Hope And Glory* In the same breath as declaring to be unable to understand why people might not want to renounce their birth citizenship isn't interesting insctuslly understanding how people feel, they just want everyone to look and sound like them and on no account utter uncomfortable truths about economics or the complex reality of life for many immigrants. A lot have cone out of the woodwork in recent months.

• but only if you're from round here

My favourites are the ones who go on from their anti-forriner rants to clarify 'oh, I don't mean immigrants like you.' Because then you only need to find out whether they're racist or xenophobic.

But Martian, it's shit, and I'm sorry you're in the position where your kids are old enough to hear and understand things bollocks. Mine are only little and in a Remain-heavy area where it's absolutely normal for kids to have one foreign parent, and I'm not EU so don't face the uncertainty you do. And I still worry about what sort of shit they might get for having an immigrant mother.

It's truly horrible that some people can be so blasé when they are talking about people's families and potentially tearing them apart.

I'm sorry for the actions of my fellow Brits on this thread, people like trying mistake nationalism for patriotism.

I wonder what terrible thing happened to make her so bitter?

It's kind of ironic that some Leave voters on this thread are berating immigrants for seeking British nationality for convenience, whilst others are berating immigrants for not taking British nationality for convenience. But what both groups are in agreement about is that immigrants should have foreseen every twist and turn of the legal and poitical changes, and done whatever it is they should/shouldn't have done, perhaps 20 years ago. It's almost like, golly gosh, immigrants can do nothing right .

Elements, don't forget that we're simultaneously nicking all the jobs and bleeding the benefits system dry because we're workshy scroungers.

I'm also guilty of nicking one of the good men who would otherwise have gone to a worthy Brit, while apparently also not wanting to integrate. It's quite the balancing act.

Who are you youing? trying

The Element: very good comment.
I would correct and say perhaps 40 years ago!

Agree with lico

Good comment element

jassy

Elements, don't forget that we're simultaneously nicking all the jobs and bleeding the benefits system dry because we're workshy scrounge

I think thats calked multi tasking

Trying, you say people only want citizenship for convenience? Well of course, as it was never a requirement before. Its not really a requirement to swear fidelity to queen and country to live here and contribute, as immigrants have proved for thousands of years.

Anyway as EU immigrants won't be going anywhere at all, and won't need citizenship your glee at this is rather funny.

Haha yes Jassy I'm guilty of that too

Shrodingers immigrant:

Immigrants exist in a state of both lazing around on benefits whilst simultaneously being out there stealing British jobs.

I think thats calked multi tasking

Which is totes unfair to British worker/dole blusher aspirants.