If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

Mango:
Because it is not a legal requirement nor a necessity.
However in view of the referendum it 'might' become a necessity. Nobody knows. Therefore it might be an insurance policy.

It reminds me of an elderly Christian lady who emigrated to Tunisia a long time ago. She raised children (professor status) and paid into the Tunisian system all her life to include her pension.
In the recent years, she has been 'encouraged' by the new government to convert to Islam or renounce her pension .

I personally don't think that it has anything to do with Islam but it suggests that any government ( to include the UK) can use 'persuasive arguments' to force you to part with your money.

It is entirely compatible.
If someone wanted to gain citizenship then they could save for it - as with most things.

It's a ridiculous cost, and should be much less - I agree; the process is ridiculously & unnecessarily over complicated and requires a massive overhaul - I agree; the citizenship test is ridiculous & massively irrelevant - I agree.
However, that is what is in place at this moment in time, and if an individual wants to become a citizen then those are the steps they need to complete.

There are a whole host of reasons why people don't choose to naturalise.

As a migrant myself (British citizen in France), I know barely any UK migrants who have naturalised - I must know, or be acquainted with, perhaps a couple of hundred British migrants in total, of whom fewer than ten (it might actually be fewer than five!) have completed the naturalisation process. And this is in a country where the naturalisation process is both much cheaper and much simpler than the procedure for EU citizens in the UK.

Why don't people bother?

• it's never been necessary
• the process is timeconsuming (this is the main reason I've never done it)
• they don't meet the criteria - many British people in France wouldn't pass the language test (obligatory for under 60s).
• they don't have the education or language skills to cope with the application process
• the cost (perhaps €300 including the language test + court-sworn translations of documents) is out their reach - lots of Brits here are dependent on French state benefits or modest UK pensions, and live hand-to-mouth.

I think the thing is, you may now be saving for the £2000 or whatever it is, and tomorrow the government can decide that now it will cost £5000, and apply that retroactively. Or insist that you fulfil some other criteria which weren't relevant or necessary when you began the process. You end up trying to jump over a bar that keeps on getting raised.

It doesn't feel that the government play fair - their stated objective is to make it difficult for people to immigrate and settle here, and they have all the legislative powers at their disposal to do so.

I can totally see why people may not be saving, let alone whether it is feasible for them to do so

No mango, your two statements were completely incompatible. You cannot believe both of i don't know why people don't naturalise and I know some people can't afford it. And actually, with your comment about how people can save for it, you've told us which of your conflicting statements you actually believe. It's the one that makes you sound out of touch: because the reality is that not everybody can save, and of those who can, not all of them will yet have been able to save the full amount. So there is an absolutely indisputable, doesn't matter whether you understand it or not, reason why some people haven't done it.

Fact is people never became citizens because it wasn't necessary, it may not even be necessary, end of. They won't need to get citizenship after brexit either cause it won't be necessary then either.

Sorry if you're worried, but that will be it. If you're crowing because you think people will be leaving you are contemptible.

I was born in the UK, but should I have wished to live in another EU country it wouldn't ever have crossed my mind to apply for citizenship of that country, because I am already a European citizen with residency rights. I consider myself to be European first and British second.

I wonder how many British emmigrants living in EU countries have become citizens of those countries. I suspect not many, as there is no need for it.

Darthplagueis who was that post aimed at?

I would totally be worried if I hadn't gotten citizenship when I did, how is that contemptible?

Silent, they are entirely compatible.

You can keep getting uppity with me, and I don't particularly care tbh, but if you want something enough you will save for it - if you don't, you won't.
No matter how hard you try to make it appear so, I am not anti immigration.

Personally, I would hope that for all those who have settled here as EU citizens it becomes nothing more than an administrative tick-box exercise with a minimal admin fee - but as I'm not in charge of the HO or the country I sadly can't make that happen.

Are you crowing about people having to leave? There are people on this thread who have made it clear that they are happy for people to have to leave a country where they have made their lives. That is contemptible.

I genuinely don't think that people without citizenship who are EU nationals need to worry. There would be massive issues if people are forced to leave, and those living in the EU have to come back. It won't happen.

I agee it won't happen, but I think it could happen that EU citizens can lose rights to benefit, state pensions, NHS if not in work and contributing. If I pay into the NHS as a higher rate tax payer for 30 years, will I still lose access when I do not work anymore and what if you never worked? Perhaps you were a SAHM raising your children here.

Holy shit, lady.

I posted to share my experience as an immigrant to this country and express solidarity

Guess there's no room for our voices on this thread- carry on talking over our heads then, darthplagueis, I'll take my contemptible migrant arse off then

www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/britains-unwritten-constitution whether you chose the term uncodified or say Britian doesn't have a Constitution it boils down to there not being a document that Is The Constitution. There are a whole collection of judgements and precidents and acts of parliament that taken together can be seen as the elements of a constitution.

I do think that the fairest way to set a pass mark, whatever the test is, would be to require every current British citizen over the age of 18 to take the test - not to kick out the millions who inevitably fail but to set the pass mark at the average mark attained by all the existing citizens.... I'd guess that'd set the pass mark at about 45%

Uncontroled..I think something is being missed here.

are you crowing about people having to leave? Which means are you rubbing your hands with glee about people who made their lives here thinking they didn't need to be citizens, having to leave the UK because of rule changes following leaving the EU?

I don't think YOU are so you are not.

If anyone is really happy that the lives people have built are being threatened THAT is contemptible.

I think Darth's earlier post has been misconstrued to be fair - she was saying that people who are gleeful about EU migrants possibly having to leave are contemptible not migrants, and not migrants who are (understandably) worried.

Sorry for double post!

Darth: yes , you might be right. I I hear many people saying this because it would take the Home Office at least 47 years to process all the EU nationals currently residing in the UK.

Mango: if you have not got a headache , is it necessary for you to buy painkillers?
If citizenship is not required, is it necessary for you to save to buy it?
Do you buy items that are not necessary for you to live? If you have surplus money, then fine. You can elect to spend it on whatever you want; nobody should judge you on your purchase choices.

Can you imagine Scotland becoming independent and all the Scots settled in England for decades having to pay for an English resident permit in order for them to acquire English citizenship to allow them to stay in England ?
You could tell them ad nauseating: why didn't you save for it?

If I was a Scot living in England, who had been settled here for many years and had every intention of staying, and was only able to vote in my settled country of choice if I registered as a citizen - then yes, I would have registered as a citizen.

I will repeat again, for clarity, I do not agree with the current process, costs or bureaucratic fuck ups.
I am not anti immigration.
I am not remotely ok with the uncertainty that EU citizens in this country are currently being forced to bear.

Sorry, posts crossed.
My latest comment was meant for earlier posts..

I wonder how many British emmigrants living in EU countries have become citizens of those countries. I suspect not many, as there is no need for it.

At the momen only a tiny minority of British citizens living in the EU have taken the host nation's citizenship. My personal experience is that most of those who have done so are either married to a local citizen or were born in the EU state concerned, and therefore have access to an easier process. (Of the four British citizens I know well who have complete the process of taking French nationality, two have French partners and the other two - my own kids! - were born here).

As for whether we "need" to naturalise or not, no one knows yet, but even if it's not strictly necessary many will find that circumstances make it difficult not to naturalise. For example I have many British friends with teenagers who may need to acquire an EU citizenship in order to avoid being penalised when they move into higher education.

Mango:
Fair enough. This is your view which I respect.
Most EU nationals are still able to
vote in their home country though even if they have left decades ago.

As 'to intention of staying' , one can never predict the future. Death, illnesses, war, redundancies, marriages, children etc..can alter the course of life .

Lico, I sincerely hope that all this is settled asap and that everyone who is here already exercising treaty rights is granted automatic right to remain.
This is a terrible situation and it's only because of mn threads that I even knew about the catch22 shitstorm that applied to EU citizens.

There's a catch in that though because "exercising treaty rights" means that someone like me won't be allowed to stay because I was a stay at home mother without health insurance. Is that fair?