If you made your life here, why didn't you become a British citizen?

[DorothyL]

How do you respond to that as an EU citizen?

I came to the UK in 98. I never applied for British citizenship because I didn't see the need - I truly felt that the fact we were all EU meant it didn't matter!

Now I'm scared because in spite of being here so long I would probably not qualify for a permanent residency card because I wasn't working (SAHM/carer).

Wish I knew what will happen

Plenty of stupid questions on:
Beowulf Poems,
JRR Tolkien
Brae prehistoric village in Irkney
The Fringe Festival
Date of first films shown in UK
Which university did Isaac Newton attend?
Sir Chris Hoy
Introduction of shampoo in UK
Jackie Stewart
Diwali
1966 world cup
Location of millennium stadium
First Danish King
Frank Whitter
Mo Farah
The Ashes
First farmers in Britain
Etc etc. there are some questions that even more idiotic..

German citizenship (the nationality famed for its love of red tape) requires a language test, a citizenship test (a little ludicrous but at least all about history and the Constitution not random pop culture) and a 5 page application form. There are also requirements for pay slips and pension records but state health insurance is absolutely acceptable. A hand written CV and residential addresses for your entire life are oddities, but apparently not nearly as twisted as British requirements.

The cost is 250€ plus 50€ roughly for the language test and maybe 80€ for the citizenship test.

It is also a more useful passport than a British one - visa free access to more countries and retain freedom of movement within the EU. 3% unemployment where I live so you have to try hard to be unemployed, and child benefit is not means tested, INcreases with each successive child and is far higher than in the UK...

Why anyone moves to the UK unless they come from there or are already settled is a mystery to me... I think people are attracted because everyone and their dog spends 8+ long years at school learning English 5+ hours a week and can't accept it was for no reason

Does ours include questions about Simon Cowell then? no, but it is clearly drafted by a bunch of civil servants who sat the common entrance --which is still stuck in the 1930s and then further refined by a few politicians who like Cameron revered "our island story". I was born and have lived in the UK for 57 years, worked in the public sector, have a History degree and two Master's degrees, and I still only passed by 1 mark.......

All of that would be then Trotz why Germany has a far higher number of EU immigrants than the UK.

Just checked out the French equivalent. It does not look as bad as the UK one; some basic history, geography and general culture. I don't think that one must buy course books to pass it. I am sure that many posters in these threads could pass it
www.linternaute.com/actualite/questionnaire/fiche/17483/1/

I got 14/24 on the sample quiz for UK Citizenship - I guessed most of them.
58% - I'd have failed.

Ridiculous questions - but what should be questions??
What sort of thing should be included?
What sensible & relevant stuff would be good to know?

(Genuinely musing on this).

I think questions on the constitution, and your rights and responsibilities and some basic questions about British life e.g. what Remembrance Day and the Poppy commemorate rather the Common Entrance history paper with associated required cramming and added jingoism would be appropriate. I know a few people who have become Australian citizens and have not felt the questions were ridiculous. By the look of it I would be more likely to pass their citizenship test than my own. and might just do so if the UK continues in the direction it is headed www.border.gov.au/Citizenship/Documents/practice-questions.pdf

I see your Enrique Iglesias anecdote, and raise you this one. Around a decade ago, a pal of mine was asked where Father Christmas lives. Shitting ye not.

whatwould Britian doesn't have a Constitution (nor does the UK, nor does England).

It would be sensible, I expect, to have questions on laws though - things that are relevant to normal life. Perhaps how long you have to appeal a parking ticket, what your rights really are (and aren't) if you ever get arrested, jury duty, freedom of speech and how far that right extends and where it is limited, whether rape within marriage is a crime, who is entitled to vote and how to go about it, what the law actually is around providing children with an education, what rights do you have if you believe you are unfairly dismissed from your job, laws about discrimination on grounds of pregnancy or disability or sex, other employment law questions too actually, and questions on tenants rights and responsibilities perhaps, questions on your rights and responsibilities if you yourself employ people, just at a very basic common knowledge level that people who employ a nanny or even a cleaner should know (the difference between being an employer and paying someone self employed - tax, national insurance, employers liability insurance) Things that British kids really should learn in citizenship lessons in the last few years of school but probably don't...

I don't think they have to be questions absolutely unique to the UK - I think it's fine if some are about laws the UK has in common with some other countries (for example questions around equality which a lot of countries have in common but not all). I guess they should just be things it's vaguely useful to know and that really should be common knowledge... Obviously someone thinking about it for more than 2 minutes would come up with better options!

We're in the middle of the German process, only having decided to do it because of Brexit. As the OP asked, why didn't we do it before? Well firstly, it was completely unnecessary - in a united Europe we could live and work where we wanted. Also, you need to be resident in Germanyfor 8 years before you can apply - which for us was June this year.

So now, hurrying through the process, we've done the citizenship test - 25eur each for DH and I. I've had to do a language exam to prove I have an acceptable level of understanding - paid 180eur As did it through a private language school so I could do it quicker, just the exam mind you and no lessons. Coujld be done cheaper through a local authority evening class. Then we've submitted our application, about 8 pages of info and the cv that's it. Paid half the money so 125 each for DH and I and the full amount for the DCs which is 51eur. Now we wait for about six months, oh and because we're all one big happy euro family, we don't have to give up our British nationality, even though Germany doesn't particularly like dual nationality - it's a special rule for eu citizens.

Seemingly much cheaper and more straightforward than in the U.K. as trotzdem said. We're just trying to keep our options open as we feel somewhat cast adrift by the whole Brexit process, everything that we based our education decisions on 20 plus years ago, job and lifestyle choices now hangs in the balance - and don't get me started on leave voting family members.....

Good luck to all you EU citizens in the U.K., uncertain times ahead.

trotsdem We do not have a written constitution but the does not mean we do not have a system of parliamentary democracy with an implicit constitution that has evolved through history, which is basically why we have a bunch of judges about to pronounce on that which is implicit. The consequent attacks on the judiciary in the tabloid press underline why both existing citizens and those who aspire to be citizens should have a better knowledge of our constitutional set up, not to mention our responsibilities as voters.

Weirdly someone asked me the other day why I still self-identify as immigrant now that I have British citizenship, and doesn't that mean I reject the country that welcomed me as citizen. Not easy to explain at all it appears.

Yes I know whatwould just playing devil's advocate really. Questions "on the Constitution" would be a bit of a contentious issue - I guess one could be "what is meant by the statement 'Britian does not have a Constitution'?"

Trotzdem, that's a sensible starter list - I wonder if the HO would agree...?!

Yes, I would agree with whatwould. Some of the questions are a bit jingoistic and 'Britannia the Waves' ; perhaps the Daily Mail helped . There are some about the empire and how big it was etc etc..

I think that it is important to have some basic geography, history. poli tical and constitutional set up and perhaps every day life questions (shops, schools etc).

An immigrant becomes a resident once residing for a while in a country. Getting a UK passport is not going to change where you were born, brought up and educated. It is not going to change your identity. Why should it? This citizen and nationality concept was created fairly recently to suit various governments. Why should you dance to their tune? Think about their agendas? There were no passports required in the 19th century anywhere in Europe (UK included) ; they were reintroduced temporarily in 1914 for security reasons (nothing to do with patriotism).

I see this citizenship process as a pure administrative step to ensure that the f.*ckers do not steal my pension and screw up my family and everything I have worked for just to suit their poltical agendas.

Sorry meant:

'Britannia Rule the Waves'

Interesting take on why this anthem
came about. It is now being used as a patriotic song.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9260167/Rule-Britannia-was-Royal-revolt-song-against-King-George-II.html

I see this citizenship process as a pure administrative step

That's how I would view citizenship tbh, and uk does not require someone to renounce their original nationality - that's why I don't really understand why someone wouldn't apply for citizenship if they've decided to settle here.
(Obviously I understand why someone would choose not to if their home country doesn't allow dual citizenship etc)

Do you really not get that some people don't have a four figure sum to pay for something that isn't essential?

I am glad that I became a citizen when I did - you could get ILR after 3 years if married, and while I still had to do the life in the uk test, the total application costs were lower and there was no minimum salary requirement or private medical insurance needed.

I could smell this in the wind, and thought better now than later - I have friends who stayed with ILR and I don't know if this will ultimately be enough to allow them to remain. All it takes is a government diktat to change the rules, and you are out of luck. I did not want to rely on the good will of governments for my life here and I am very glad I didn't

The cynic in me wonders if there will one day be tiered citizenship, i.e. If you were born here to British parents, you will 'outrank' someone who was naturalised, or if those naturalised can have their citizenship downgraded.

It all feels precarious and I feel for everyone who is in this position now

Of course I get it - I've never once said a four figure sum is remotely reasonable.

I'm just saying that I see it as purely an administrative thing, and don't see why it should be anything other than that.

Not really sure what Big Point you're determined to make to me tbh.

If it gets to the stage that they would make me leave in spite of a British husband, children and job then I'll gladly go back to my home country, then this is not a country I want to be in anymore.

Getting that people can't necessarily afford to naturalise isn't compatible with saying that you don't understand why someone wouldn't apply for citizenship if they've decided to settle here. If you can see that some people are excluded because of the cost, then in fact you do understand why quite a lot of EEA nationals haven't naturalised.