Has anyone else noticed a change in mood this week, and not a positive one?

[Bearbehind]

Since the referendum it seems to me that, unless you go looking for news about it, for some reason it's not been the headline news it should be.

I think those that have been following it thought the Tory party conference would at least put to rest some concerns but it's had the opposite affect.

Last night ITV news led with a story about how, although the predictions of doom hadn't materialised, we haven't actually left yet.

It went on to talk about the tanking pound and Hollande saying the UK must pay for Brexit.

Even the Daily mail seems to be a bit less gung ho about everything.

Several people I spoke to last week were very down about it all and they're not people I'd even discussed Brexit with before.

Is the media making a conscious effort to get people to see it isn't all rosy or is it just me thinking that's the case?

Make that, you, me and most of the people who have the skills to allow them that choice, I know Svarte and Jm.

If they are not listened to by the ballot box, people will vote with their feet.

Even UKIP's Roger Helmer thinks May has gone too far

Bad times.

UKIP, the party of Torys too Tory to be in the Tory party, now saying the Torys are too UKIP for UKIP. We're so screwed.

This weeks been awful. I've very much been in the denial phase of coping with Brexit.

It's really hit home that it's going to happen and it's going to be awful. The xenophobia has really shocked me.

The xenophobia has really shocked me.

Not just for loony fringes of political parties - but mainstream Government spokespeople. Theresa May can prattle on all she likes about Britain being open for business, but her anti - foreigner rhetoric tells a different story.

I think i read this in a link postes here, but the "citizens of the world are citizens of nowhere" line has been picked up in the American press as a throwback to the antisemitic slurs of the 20/30s. Well done Theresa, no British PM has insulted so many people or fanned so much hatred.

Completely anecdotal, but if my twitter feed is anything to go by, the last week has seen more broadsheet alarm (and not just from the Grauniad and the FT) plus for the first time I've seen reasonably well-known leavers saying out loud that "this isn't what I voted for".

I've also started to see polite remainers in the public eye saying, with reference to events in the US, that UK commentators should have taken the gloves off in the way that the Washington Post has done with Trump.

misti that's the kind of things I've noted too. There seems to be a real change in the air and it's not good.

I think I actually preferred it when it was quiet, at least you could cling on to the hope that when the government did make a statement it might be better than I'd thought.

Everytime someone in the government says anything it seems to get worse and worse and it's apparent they have no clue what they're doing.

I don't honestly believe most people who voted out wanted what she's proposing

Sadly, I think you are wrong. Compulsory lists of foreign workers is amazingly popular (60%+ including some remainers) and I think May has gambled that all of these people will be prepared to vote Tory, albeit while holding their noses in some cases.

Most of us posting in here live in an educated, liberal bubble. The polls say that we are a minority.

We have put our Brexit contingency plans into full swing now, picked up certified birth certificate translations for DH and me today and hopefully by the end of next year all four of us will have a second passport.

To be honest, I think May is a hard negotiator. I don't like that we're leaving, and I voted Remain, but I think some of this is about setting a hard face to the negotiations.

Before I say this, I don't think this is what is morally right, but I do think this is what is happening.

The things like finding out who is a non-UK worker, which children are British born etc, it's about exploiting the one chip Britain has got left with some European countries- their people who are already here.

A lot of European countries have had pretty stagnant job markets for a long time (even pre-financial crisis), and then the number of people who moved in the aftermath of the crisis is large. France, Spain, Poland would struggle to find work for all the people who are currently here if they had to return home suddenly.

Equally, Britain was I think the only country that didn't press the 3 year pause button on free movement of people when the Eastern European countries joined. With the consequence that a lot of Eastern European people moved to the U.K., especially initially, as it was one of the few options open to them. Then later, their communities here where already established so it was a more attractive option than the other options.

So, there a lot of other European countries who arguably didn't want a large scale, quick influx, that's why they pressed pause in the first place when the Eastern European countries joined (and it could be that they didn't want a large influx from anywhere, not anything specific to it being Eastern Euterpe or religious). But they might face it now, if suddenly a lot of people who had moved to the UK have to leave, and don't want to go back home (for the same reasons that made them leave in the first place).

And that's the bargaining chip that's left. (Some) access to the free market or your people have to go home/to another European country.

Admittedly, not many Germans here, so "you have to take your people back" is not much of a bargaining tool with the Germans. But they might not want a large scale influx from other countries, as they are struggling already to integrate the refugees they have taken. And as a (perceived) wealthy country with lots of work they would be high up on the list of alternative places to go if you had to leave the U.K. fairly fast and didn't want to go home because there is no work there/fewer opportunities. Add tariffs on luxury cars and there is starting to be a case for limited access to the single market for the U.K.

I think it's ugly, but I also think that that is what is happening.

When it first happened I was determined to get my Irish passport. I'd let it slide, this week has got me digging out all the paperwork. The boys have (different) dual nationality anyway. DH is refusing to pay for British with the current national outlook. I don't blame him. He's been teaching here for 13 years, came at a time of teacher shortage, and we both work in schools which had to advertise almost all positions twice and some three times last summer to get them filled - he's not taking anyone's job. We're off to France at the end of the year. The equivalent of the LA there can put us both in schools immediately as English teachers, and we'll sort out the qualifications in post. We've talked about it on and off for the last few years. This summer we made the plans for sure. We're both language teachers, both qualified to teach three different languages, plus English - we're not interested in the kids being raised in such an anti-EU environment. Yes, France has its problems, but it hasn't happened there yet, and might not. And psychologically I hate being on an inward-looking island.

Unfortunately, I can't help feeling that all the things that we're seeing were inevitable. We were offered a binary choice. Groups like Britain First, NF, BNP and all the other loony racists were only ever going to vote one way. A large proportion of more rational voters then chose to vote alongside them for various - non-immigration related - reasons. I really believe that you need to be very, very careful about getting into bed with extremists. The referendum should never have been held.

You mean the bargaining chip that the Home Office said yesterday that they didn't have (and lots of people were aware they never had) because so many EU citizens have eligibility to stay in the UK.

That non existent bargaining chip?

Zazie - it's not much of a bargaining position is it?
Theresa May: We're going to chuck out EU workers
EU: We're going to watch your NHS fall flat on its face when a sizeable percentage of the workforce leaves and are going to laugh when all the elderly Spanish expats get sent home in retaliation.

Spanish expats? I meant British 'expats' in Spain, who should be rightly referred to as 'migrants.'

My DC and I have dual Irish citizenship (thanks mum!) so I will contact the Irish embassy in the new year and get the ball rolling with new passports.
Dh doesn't have that luxury, sadly.

Government U-turn on naming (and shaming) foreign workers. Thank God.

The genie is out of the bottle though.

I agree
The moment it's spoken about openly and with a sense of pride! Is the moment that proves to me my country is no longer a safe place - for anyone

Badders - doesn't your DH qualify for Irish passport as your spouse if you have been married for certain number of years? I have Italian citizenship and I'm pretty sure my husband is entitled to it because we have been married for more than five years.

It seems it might not be so much a u - turn but a right turn that the government are still trying to stick to.

Mirror Politics @MirrorPolitics
Greening says public won't see list of foreign workers employed by companies. Only the government will. #Peston

Nicola Sturgeon ‏@NicolaSturgeon
The fact that the 'lists' would be secret rather than public doesn't make it acceptable. It really doesn't.

lala whilst it's good they've backed down on that it's a fecking joke isn't it?

That announcement lasted less than a week- how the feck are we going to actually get through Brexit if they can't stick to a decision for longer than a week?

Oh I will hAve to check that out lala

Agreed, Bear, but I take comfort from the fact that they are having to back down so quickly. Surely it's going to hurt their morale and it will also (hopefully) signal to some of their more rabid Brexiteers that it's not going to be as easy as they delude themselves keep telling us it will be.

Compared to where we were a few days ago, this rolling back and the reports of growing Cabinet splits over Brexit are making me feel much more optimistic.