Brexit making me sad about parents

[aelah]

Both my parents voted out. I voted in. They are mid 50's I am 32 with a 4 year old.

They are constantly dismissing my fears as 'believing the hype and spin' when in reality I think it's the other way round.

When I post something vaguely remainer ish on FB they jump on and tell me to 'stop worrying' and 'be happy we have control
Of our own destiny now'

Is it just me or is anyone getting increasingly pissed off? I feel like I voted based on the (limited) facts available and because I feel like people my age have already had it shot (with uni fees, recession, unable to buy houses, soaring childcare) etc. But my parents just keep wittering on about 'taking back control' and 'being in control
Of our own destiny'. To me these are meaningless statements.... And I'm getting annoyed.

Short of barring theme both from my FB, what can I do?

and that travel and working/studying abroad happened before we joined.
It was much more difficult - we investigated going to live in the Netherlands before the EU came into being but didn't pursue it in the end. DD just went, obtained the equivalent of a NI Number and got a job - it was so much easier.

Oh, and one month after the referendum the economic chickens are coming home to roost.
Nat West is now talking about negative interest rates for its commercial customers.

We are still no nearer to a plan. TM has now said there won't be a hard border between NI and the Republic, which is a change from a previous stance. Just one example of how no-one seems to have much of a clue.

because your parents are over 50 doesn't mean they are senile OP; it means that they are aware there was life before the UK joined the EEC in 1973, and that travel and working/studying abroad happened before we joined.

I'm 55. I was 12 when we joined the EEC. Don't know about others but I wasn't working or studying abroad at 11

I was however studying/working in France as part of my degree in 1980 - before full freedom of movement was implemented. I remember having to sort my carte de sejour and go to the mairie. I was also restricted on what bank account I could open into which to have my salary paid.

Things got much easier later.

I'm sad for my ds, who'll be going to Uni in 2018, that he might not have the same opportunities.

He turns 16 in September though, so he'll be able to vote in an Indyref2 if we have one

Er, I don't think my parents are senile. And yes they were aware of life before 1973, although not sure about how much EU law they would have been aware of given that they were 11 and 12.

I'm just sad my daughter potentially may not have the right to work and study abroad and that my partner may lose his job (works for a Spanish company). Our next door neighbours house sale has fallen through (buyers are junior doctors and cited 'brexit' as the reason.....) X

Aleah, I really do think this not being able to study abroad is a bit of a red herring. I know of people studying in other parts of the world which are not in the EU so can see no reason why that would be a problem after Brexit.
As for working abroad well there always be people from all over the world in different parts of the world working. A relation of mine decided to opt out of his degree and is now running a very successful business in a South American country not an EU country.
I can understand your fear for your husband's job but the neighbour's house sale to Junior Docs. well, unless they are European Drs then I can't see how they would be affected by Brexit.

Maybe the vote should have excluded older people on the basis they are politically illiterate?

Just don't discuss it with them. My family was split down the middle on the referendum and we've managed to avoid making one another sad over whether or not it was a good idea for the UK to vote to leave a supranational administrative arrangement.

You need to get over it. I voted remain, my dad voted out. I know absolutely loads of people whose parents voted out when they themselves voted in. It is done and we have to move forwards.

As a side issue, delete Facebook entirely. It is the work of the devil.

I was lucky because all my immediate family voted the same way (even MIL who reads the Daily Mail and goes on and on about immigrants. ) At the moment though, we haven't invoked Article 50, so unless a person's job or study prospects are immediately affected, it's probably best to ignore the matter. This would be until we saw what sort of offer is on the table.

I too have parents who come out with the whole "it will be fine" "It was all fine before we went into the EU" "Britain's full" rhetoric, all straight from the pages of thevDaily Mail, except I am old enough to have become an adult in the 70s and it was definitely not fine trying to build a life in a recession. And I have two millennials who feel very betrayed, especially as one is already feeling the direct and very real effects of post Brexit uncertainty on Science funding.

At the moment I am keeping my fingers in my ears and shouting "Don't mention the war" in both directions but to be honest I feel very disappointed by their narrow mindedness and failure to even appreciate just a bit that there is some validity in their Grandaughters' feelings.

Corcory There is a real threat to the opportunity to study in the EU that 15000 British students took up last year. Enough for most students to know somebody who benefitted, and for whom it was almost always life changing in a good way. www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jul/23/erasmus-scheme-exclude-british-students-brexit

Aelah I live in Belgium, and there are non EU students here. There are Americans, Canadians, Koreans, Aussies, South Africans etc who work here, and none of their countries are EU member states, and yet, here they are, in employment.

Brexit doesn't mean that the opportunity to live and work abroad disappears for ever. My great aunt married a Frenchman in 1946, and lived in Le Havre before the EU came into being!

It is much more expensive to be a foreign/international student than under the Erasmus scheme.

I for one, despite being a family that could consider overseas education for ds (he actually wants to study in Australia, so that he can experience Southern Hemisphere rugby we are trying to dissuade him), don't want to see international study being only within reach of the wealthy

....sorry, forgot the word "independent" before foreign/international - as in, not in a sponsored scheme.

Scary

"I live in Belgium, and there are non EU students here. There are Americans, Canadians, Koreans, Aussies, South Africans etc who work here, and none of their countries are EU member states, and yet, here they are, in employment."

This kind of anecdote isn't really helpful unless you take into account the economic backgrounds of these students.

Sure - there are plenty of opportunities to study and travel outside the EU - if you are wealthy. That has been the case forever - I have friends who have sent their children to Harvard and other US universities, I went to the LSE as a mature masters student a few years ago and was surrounded by international students - Chinese and Russian especially - for whom cash was absolutely no object; I also remember taking my DD to the American Universities fair in Kensington not so long ago and again, however "needs blind" you might imagine these institutions to be, in reality you needed lots of money to make it work.

Losing the access that comes from being an EU member will be a retrograde step for students unless their parents have big pockets. It's back to the world of the Grand Tour...

It wasn't just about students...it was about people who work here too, from non EU Member States.

There are non EU Member States and partner countries that participate in Erasmus and Erasmus+, so it's hardly back to the days of the Grand Tour is it?

As far as I'm aware the non EU countries in the Erasmus + scheme are all countries who are closely linked to the EU - they either want to join or are in the EEA.

I think you'll find the partner countries involved are world wide.

So why wouldn't the UK be able to become a partner country?

Corcory Firstly it is a negotiating pot with a lot of other issues which may take precedence in what is going to be an incredibly complex negotiation, especially what TM will perceive as a priority immigration controls. EU students coming here (who then go home for their last year of university) are included in those immigration figures people find so scary. It may get forgotten, or it may get negotiated away

Secondly those Erasmus students coming here to study are an important source of revenue to universities. However a country that has stuck a finger up at Europe in an apparent attack of xenophobia (which is how it is being covered in the overseas press) is becoming a much less attractive place to study. The existing immigration controls for non EU students were already affecting our competitive advantage in what is a global market for overseas students. We may have some of the world's top universities but by no means do we have all of them.

What - TM could easily decide that the immigration figures no longer include students so that would show a substantial reduction. I would certainly hope that the current Erasmus scheme would be part of the negotiations. I would think it would be complete foolery not to take notice of this sector of our community. and include it in our Brexit negotiations.

Aside from the political issues here the OP's parents are repeatedly telling her she is stupid, naive and not entitled to her opinion. That would piss anyone off.

Corcory She could have taken students out of the immigration figures at any time in the last ten years but she hasn't, probably because it was a part of the non EU immigration figures she could massage down a little more easily than having to take some of the more draconian measures that have been taken, like keeping spouses apart. For example the clampdown on visas for students attending educational institutions that were little more than a scam (which were actually a product of the governments inept liberalisation of higher education). I hope she does take them out of the figures and stop them being a target for control, but they created immigration as a number one priority in some people's minds and played with the figures to underwrite that, why would they resort to common sense on the issue now?

aelah

I have a friend who voted remain where her parents and siblings voted leave, and she took it very personally and publicly vehemently disagreed with them and ended up blocking them on Facebook.

I voted remain, my father and in-laws voted leave, and I had a bit of a disagreement with them all when they said that because I am young (38!!) I know nothing and can't appreciate life outside the EU. They're right in that last regard, patronising with the first regard, but top and bottom is we saw that we disagreed and it's now left that we don't talk about it in order to keep the peace.

I know it's hard when you disagree but don't fall out with your family over this. You're both right, you're both wrong, you both have equally justified concerns and you've both been spun a yarn by politicians. It's not worth falling out over.