Westminstenders Continues. Boris is having a bad week. Corbyn resists. Its gonna be a long summer.

[RedToothBrush]

THE BREXIT FALLOUT CONTINUES - THREAD ELEVEN

The dust is beginning to settle and the storm has abated. At least for the moment. The summer is about to start, and so there may be a break in proceeding.

May has had quite a first week both here and abroad.

The ground has not stopped shaking from the political ripples abroad. Made PM on Weds, Nice on Thursday and a failed coup in Turkey on Friday. The political landscape has changed once again.

At home she first cleared out the Govians and called for loyalty. She channelled the ghost of Maggie at the despatch box. She started the process of trying to make friends with Scots, Germans and the French. She is apparently now Merkel's bestie. Sturgeon is already ousted from that position after just days.

Boris, meanwhile has been rinsed by everyone he speaks to because of what he's said in the past. He's also given up his chickfeed job. Oh the hardship.

Now he looking like he's starting to regret deciding to play with the grown up. He's been trying - and it would seem, largely failing - at sucking up to the Americans. There's still no apology, but he has admitted that he has a list that is so long that he's lost track of what he needs to apologise for. I bet he's wishing for his playmates, Dave and George to come back.

Otherwise life carries on as normal, well this alternate new version of normal, with parliament breaking for the summer today. Don't worry the Martian landing is scheduled for a week Tuesday.

UKIP's polling seems to have dropped back post referendum, and things have gone rather quiet. Wolfe, Etheridge, Duffy and Arnott are all standing (Who? When did that happen? Yeah quite. Without Farage they disappeared). They plan to reform and make an assault on seats in the Labour heartlands of the provisional NW, Midlands and NE at the next general election. Hustings in August, new leader announced Sept 15th. Looks of thinly and not so thinly veiled racism to look forward to there then. The Daily Mail best make sure it upgrades its servers in time.

The Labour contest grinds on like a war of attrition. Stalking horse Angela fell at the first fence as Owen Smith (that's the MP not the journalist everyone including the media!) wins the dream unity candidate ticket for an apparent hiding to nothing against the steely stubbornness of Corbyn. Everyone with a pulse is starting to loose the will to live with it all.

The Lib Dems, have a Spokesman for Remain. Old Cleggy's back! Otherwise they seem to have been trying to do a deluded impression of the opposition party. Though with 8 MPs they aren't doing much better or worse than Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet atm.

The Green are having a leadership battle too. It must be very civilised - I've heard not a word about it. Lucas tried to get a vote about PR though the Commons. It failed. Again.

There also is a cross party idea to set up a new iniative of a progressive movement to champion Europe, which seems to be gaining some traction. It may also double as a support group for anyone who thinks the world has gone a bit nuts lately at this rate.

The SNP are pissed off, as they vow differently on everything and once again they feel that Trident has been imposed on them. Sturgeon had a good meeting with May though, and apparently the Union must remain and Scotland holds the key to the future. Though we don't know the key to which door that is - Braveheart or Brave New World.

The Republic of Ireland is making noises about a referendum about Irish Unity, but beyond that nothing about NI has really been on the radar. May is supposed to go visiting soon.

And the Welsh? Baaaaa who cares about the welsh? They made the mistake of voting Leave as well as the English and now have been forgotten, consigned to political irrelevance forever.

Article 50 has been pushed back officially until the New Year, with a first legal hearing on how to activate it due no sooner than the 3rd week in October. Leaving the EU legally will now be no earlier than 2019.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2685902-Westminstenders-Contines-Boris-outmaneovered-everyone-Now-War-and-Peace?pg=1 Previous Thread TEN

I rather get the impression that Theresa May is saying different things to different people. Perhaps that's not necessarily bad - she may be trying to test the water.

I wonder when she is going to visit Gibraltar - the people there must feel well and truly shafted - if 96% wasn't a mandate for Remain, what was?

As for China - if current plans to allow the Chinese to build power stations etc. do go ahead, will we in 30 to 40 years time be wishing that we had stuck with the EU, because the French and Germans are much more like us than the Chinese are?

Good analysis Red. I did an International Relations university module and it was fascinating to analyse stuff like this. Will the state structure survive or will people/groups realign according to common interests? Realism versus Liberalism etc. Great stuff - wish I could do a masters in IR.

I rather get the impression that Theresa May is saying different things to different people. Perhaps that's not necessarily bad - she may be trying to test the water.

I've had that impression too. It will piss people off eventually.

Swedish, with everything going on, I realised just how little I know about history/culture from other parts of the world - including differences between Muslims. Which seems kind of important to know and understand at the moment. Even the creation of Al Jazeera, was a reaction to the West's complete lack of acknowledgement of differing world views and how they are not seen 'as important'. Its about how lives in different parts of the world are not seen as important. This photo in the press today sums that up well. Its also why the Iraq War keeps haunting Labour.

(Al Jazeera are running a series at the moment on the subject of the Caliph here If anyone is interested).

There are so many similar themes and problems flying around at the moment, which are being played out in lots of different ways on a national and international scale that I think there has to be a common thread between them all, which if you can properly identify and get to the heart of we might have a shot at a better future for everyone. But that's a big if presently, and also depends on the political will as much as identifying the problem.

I'm certainly not convinced that May's in that position.

UK Race hate crimes spike

Do read this horrific overview of post-ref race hate crimes
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-racism-uk-post-referendum-racism-hate-crime-eu-referendum-racism-unleashed-poland-racist-a7160786.html

All UK regions, all social classes, all ages - even small children racially abusing and being abused

Although most attackers mentioned winning the referendum, much of the abuse was against BAME victims and even against gay people - the referendum wasn't supposed to be remotely about them.

It seems every type of nasty human being can take the referendum result as justification for openly expressing hate to any minority

Horrid to think that all this slime has been crawling around in the UK, waiting for "permission" to come into the open.

Also depressing to read the comments below. I stopped after only about the 5th comment:
"How about some sympathy for the feelings of the majority of the British who did not want this invasion forced upon us"

What the FUCK ! It takes victim-blaming to a whole new level

Red I am absolutely sure as someone who actually grew up in a "terroist" culture that understanding other cultures is key. Of course Irish culture is acccessible enough for most to understand that not all Irish approved, let alone were involved. That the Catholic Church was not in some way, at least in relation to any other religion, inherently encouraging of violence. Having lived and studied another culture 99% of the coverage in the UK press fails to understand the perspective that arises from the ideology of that culture, just a few enlightened journalists who have actually studied the culture are employed by the BBC and the Guardian. Otherwise it is all conforming to the easy stereotypes that do not confront anyone's prejudices ......

Well most English can't get their heads around NI, can they? They don't even acknowledge their relevance to being part of the same country.

But yes, I learnt the same lesson. Look at the same questions and problems with different eyes and perspectives.

Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 11m11 minutes ago
Nuclear expert Paul Dorfman: "China is well known for seeding data in, and taking data from, critical structures" #newsnight

Ian Katz ‏@iankatz1000 13m13 minutes ago
.@helentbbc reports May had expressed concerns on security implications of Chinese involvement in nuclear industry to colleagues #newsnight
3 retweets 3 likes

I'm glad May is expressing concerns.

Red - thanks for the previous picture

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/
This is UTTERLY damning of the Eurozone.

I find it staggering. I know people who have always said that what happened was a real possibility and the Greek situation occurred because they were unable to devalue their currency and was entirely predictable.

It is potentially good for the UK. It makes the case that the UK knew what they hell we were talking about from the start and that we were not merely just 'eurosceptic' but able to accurately assess the risk and problems of a single currency.

But it also will show up more cracks.

www.france24.com/en/20160729-big-risk-eu-turkey-migrant-deal-collapsing-juncker?ref=tw_i
Juncker says there is a 'big risk' of the EU-Turkey migrant deal collapsing.

The Democrats look like they have been hacked again, with suspicion being that its state backed. It is being investigated on the grounds of National Security. That should get interesting then...

Annoyingly I have reached my limit on free Telegraph articles, so I can't read what the link above says. (I refuse to pay.)

I grew up in the Glasgow area and moved to London for work. I found it really difficult to get my head around how little Londoners understood or wanted to understand about NI when there were IRA bombs going off in the City and the tube was being evacuated every other day.

Lovely example of truthiness in the Independent Map of which EU countries have most citizens living abroad. In the context of EU to EU migration they quote a figure of 4.9m for the UK. Just under 4m of them live outside of Europe in the US, Australia, Canada, NZ and indeed throughout the World. I already knew this but I bet most didn't. Nor does it point out that although there are just over 1m UK citizens living in the EU there are 3m EU citizens living in the UK. I didn't bother to read further and as you would expect tend to switch off entirely when I see this sort of nonsense.

I tend not to see it for UKIP etc as I don't even bother to click the links.

By the sound of it if Hinckley Point goes ahead in its current form it could be another expensive disaster like PFI was. It does seem worth questioning because the project was due to be completed next year, and it hasn't yet started, so it could well be obsolete long before it gets going.

I do wonder what the 'behind the scenes' story is, because it seems absolutely astonishing behaviour for a Government to pause something when various delegations were there almost literally with their fountain pens poised for signature, and to be sent home again.

Interesting you should say that mother. Missed the start of the paper review but came in halfway through discussion of the Times article tomorrow. I think it is looking at how Putin among others are taking advantage of our mistrust of msm and use of the internet to push their agenda. Apparently you can trace Putin's influence in the Scottish Yes campaign, so it is not just Trump (Tim Stanley's presse so he may be being imaginative).

Struggling to see why this would be news to anyone. Cannot wait to see if the Times manages any introspection at all .

Wonder if TM is just lining up another bargaining chip? Maybe she sees an opportunity to get a better deal on the kwh rates? Not a bad plan to stall at least until the design is actually proven somewhere? Wonder what the Chinese are saying?

Haven't seen the full article yet mother but a lot of online sites don't seem to vet their contributors much.

Scathing report on the IMF's attitude to the Eurozone yesterday.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/

Failings in part attributed to group think and undue political interference in technical judgements - no wonder people don't believe experts.

(Just placemarking here)

The other think I take from the Telegraph article is that the euro can only work with more political integration.

So I am still struggling to see a way forward for the EU outside of a two-speed union with a more integrated eurozone.

I guess the alternative would be to give up on the euro. But that would be very damaging to the single market, not even to getting into the political fallout

Wow, I thought this thread was calming down, and then I miss a day...

I've spent the last week surrounded by people who care about language, cultural understanding, travel, Europe etc. and the feeling among us all was still one of shock. Was speaking to someone half-German and half-Saudi who is really worried about the upcoming German elections, and potential increase in far right influence there, as well as the fact that May and Merkel seem to understand each other, but what will happen if/when Merkel isn't re-elected?

wonder what the Chinese are saying Not a lot, certainly not officially. China Daily is the official mouthpiece, South China Morning Post is Hong Kong based and self censors rather than being directly controlled. I would guess the silence is because they perceive this as a reasonable step in the negotiating process.

www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2016-07/30/content_26277306.htm

app.scmp.com/scmp/mobile/index.html#/article/1996593/desktop

The official silence

Howabout - to be fair on that Indi EU immigration article, it not only makes the point about relative percentages (of total populations) but also that it is measuring overall immigration. It even says that UK immigration to EU countries is only 1.2 million. You have to read to the bottom of the article - and most people will already have been influenced by the impact of the initial graphic.

Re the IMF: it has acknowledged that it was wrong in trying to insist on austerity in response to Iceland's need for support. Iceland successfully resisted, devalued and didn't follow a strict austerity programme and came out of recession more quickly (as well as jailing the bankers that got them into the problem in the first place )

There are lots of people in Europe who don't understand NI either.

When I was working in France many many years ago , I used to have to explain repeatedly that "Northern Ireland" (as a whole) wasn't being kept in the UK against its will and that the IRA only represented a small proportion of the population. Many if the people I talked to knew nothing of the history (not saying I did, but I knew more than them). The hunger strikers were big in the news.

Iirc, the French media always reported the IRA very positively, but didn't report the activities of the UDA/UDF as they didn't fit the script of a region that was united in its desire to escape the oppressive UK regime.

I had to explain that it wasn't as black and white as that and that were shades of grey - while not excusing any of the terrorism (did wonders for my French - having to argue politics! )

Annoyingly I have reached my limit on free Telegraph articles, so I can't read what the link above says. (I refuse to pay.)

I use a different browser when that happens. Problem fixed

Gareth Davies @Gareth_Davies09 was tweeting last night about the state of local journalism. I've copy/pasted in reverse (so you might need to read from bottom to top to get it to make proper sense. All of the below is from him, except a couple of tweets I've included as important. I'd have put it in the right order, but I need to go out. Its VERY important. It also should reflect why MPs are out of touch with their constituencies to a degree. Into this void we have piss poor accountability, both locally and nationally, and a social media that is running riot. This is where MN starts becoming REALLY REALLY fucking important too. And a good blog network. Thinking about it, if you don't want to get political, maybe people should get blogging. Proper blogging on important issues they care about and more than 140 characters long. Anyway here it is:

Waiting for Trinity Mirror to respond with '16 reasons why Gareth Davies is wrong about @CroydonAd and local journalism'

I forgot one important point: reporters now have to get permission to write stories that might get less than 1,000 hits

The few reporters who are left are not allowed to meet contacts unless there is a guarantee of a story...

This. If you see good local journalism it was almost certainly done in reporter's spare time

Martin Bryant‏@MartinSFP

In this environment, anyone who wants to be a thorough journalist has to do background work in their unpaid time.

@Gareth_Davies09 @sarahwickens I have to say the website is really annoying - you can't read anything without clicking annoying links

Didn't cover the suffocating online ads/surveys but, yes, them too...

Local press should be a vital part of democratic accountability and a force for change, not an exercise in generating clicks by any means

Given paper scraped from web, the readership who do not go online (eg. elderly) most affected. Sure they'll enjoy the lists though

I'd say at least 70% of stories got less than 1,000 hits, including very important ones, such as those that prompted law change

Exceptions rare, only made for stories deemed 'important' enough, though headlines will be made more, essentially, clickbaity

If anyone has a solution, or even a suggestion, let me know. I love local journalism (as you can tell) and I don't want to give up on it

Trinity Mirror and other publishers lost all sight of that and advertisers are catching on. Their model only accelerates the demise of local press

You only have to look at successful campaigns local papers run to realise this issue isn't just about yesterday's chip paper

They think they can cobble together any old rubbish and sell it for same price and no one will care. Show them they're wrong

So if you read @CroydonAd, or just care about local papers, don't just read my tweets, let Trinity Mirror know what you think

So, yeah, things are really shit

Not that this is all Trinity Mirror. This race to the bottom began years ago. It's just Trinity Mirror has turned it into a brand & given it a name

I'm told a reporter was recently instructed to lift quotes from a rival paper's story just so we could get a story online

That would never happened just a month or so ago

I should have said all this weeks ago. Feel like I owe the staff who at still there an apology for not doing so

Instead the death of local papers is taken as inevitable, so we turn to web as the only solution

But, for whatever reason, there aren't enough people speaking out. Local newspapers/journalism bloody important & should be defended

I know @CroydonAd and its sister papers are far from alone in this. Similar things happening everywhere

But then they're employed by a company that informed someone they've been made redundant over the phone, during the school run

Well, it breaks my heart. I couldn't stick around to watch the paper be destroyed & I would not help them do it

What do readers get in return? A website focused on live blogging everything, with reporters told to 'write like they speak down the pub'

Trinity can get away with all of this because these are junior reporters & there's no union recognition

They already work at least 30 mins away from patch, in poorly paid jobs (2/2)

They have to get permission from a non-editorial manager to claim travel expenses (1/2)

Without any prior warning they were put on shifts, including working on Sundays. Every six weeks reporters have to work 12 consecutive days

And now it has no photographers & its two remaining reporters help cover Croydon, Sussex & Surrey...

Now that's finished. The paper's only role is to prop up the website with meagre advertising revenue...

Who worked far more than their contracted hours to produce what was, at its best, award-winning journalism, but at least a public service...

Don't get me wrong, @CroydonAd, like other local papers, has been in decline for years. But it was kept together by its staff...

They deserve better & so do the readers, who are unwittingly being asked to pay same price for a fraction of the product

They've been completely misled and taken advantage of; their working conditions changed radically without any change in contract

That's not a criticism of the reporters. Those unable to leave at this point are as disillusioned as I am.

A paper with a proud 147-year history reduced to being a thrown together collection of clickbait written for the web

Reporters no longer have any input or involvement in the paper product, including no chance to proofread

Why? Because, as of this week, paper consists entirely of stories scraped from website by subs and put in paper.

V. sad that this is what Trinity has reduced @croydonad to: running crap listicles in the paper on consecutive pages