Turkey - has it changed anyone's view on EU?

[bkgirl]

There is more reporting and interest in Erdogan and his approach to ruling Turkey.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-live-erdogan-dead-killed-istanbul-ankara-military-take-over-martial-law-latest-updates-a7140371.html

I was wondering if it changed how you feel about the EU ref and Turkeys accession (regardless of how soon or not it happens) or indeed the possible visa free travel?

agreed Peregrina.

The recent events In Turkey only raises once again the Leave claim
about trading with these so-called Emerging countries/economies.
Turkey is/was a very strong emerging market but no one is going to
invest there at the moment. Look at Argentina as well. Here one minute
gone the next. Turkey has a history of coups mainly designed to keep
it secular.
Leave do not seem to appreciate that many emerging markets will first
need help from outside and tbh the EU does have the might to do this
It will be decades before some emerging economies have the wealth
to buy what we sell .

WikiLeaksVerified account
‏@wikileaks
Coming Tuesday: The #ErdoganEmails: 300 thousand internal emails from Erdoğan's AKP - through to July 7, 2016.

Should be interesting.

Saw this - what a plonker
'Women should not laugh in public,' says Turkey's Deputy Prime Minister in morality speech

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-should-not-laugh-in-public-says-turkeys-deputy-prime-minister-in-morality-speech-9635526.html

Found this too...
Sadiq Khan has given an interview to the Turkish state-run Anadolu news agency, in which he says he wants London to take inspiration from how they do things in Istanbul:
order-order.com/2016/02/15/smells-like-istanbullsht-khan-wants-london-to-be-more-like-turkey/

Seriously!!!!!!

Gosh. Does nobody understand that diplomacy is a complicated game. Of course it is in our interests that countries like Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia, Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo make political reforms, in or out of the EU. The Balkans have long been a locus of the divisions between Russia, the Middle East and western Europe, not to mention the scene of a horrific war post the break up of the former Yugoslavia. Wanting them to be allies of the west as opposed to Russia or Middle Eastern countries with all the horrendous consequences that might bring for their people and the security of Europe is an entirely different thing to giving them full membership of the EU which they are a long way from being in a position to qualify for. If you subscribe to the view that it is all a plot to bring migrants to our shores perhaps you also subscribe to the view I saw from one Brexiter that the EU sanctions against Russia were vicious bullying by a state determined to bring poor innocent Putin down (as opposed to disincentivise him from bringing planes full of innocent people down)

bkgirl Have you been to Istanbul? It is indeed a thriving capital of young people who really value their secular inheritance (Ataturk the founder of the modern Turkish state made separating state and religion a pillar of the modern Turkish state). It has a thriving cultural and political scene that is very much about a modern secular Turkey with an Islamic inheritance. Erdogans power base is in the rural areas where what he has done and is doing appeals to the Conservative Muslims just as it does across the Middle East. Did you not see that in 2013 11 died, 8000 were injured and 3000 arrested in protests by those supporting secular government, a protest sparked in Istanbul which spread nationwide. This coup is him continuing to cement his power base. Erdogan is not a good thing for sure but that does not mean the young people of Istanbul are not either. I completely see and agree with Sadiq Khan that they are a good example of how Islamic culture can be vibrant and inclusive and not repressive and xenophobic

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests

And can you not see the distinction between supporting the reality that he is a democratically elected leader, the free elections are largely not disputed and then condemning the undemocratic behaviour he is using the coup as an excuse to legitimate. I am sure the diplomats are in overdrive to try and mitigate the tyranny he is now exerting with whatever power we have, and most especially for Turkey to keep taking back the migrants arriving on Greek shores. Countries like Turkey and Lebanon are after all shouldering a much greater burden of the horrific human consequences of the actions of the Assad regime .

concertplayer But Argentina? Have I missed something? For sure there is a constant parade of corrupt left and right wing muppets, but the people just carry on regardless, still with one of the best standards of living in Argentina and they do vote in the muppets. Their economy isn't in bad shape, in surplus pretty much constantly for over a decade now, though agriculturally based, and they might be a good trading partner for sure if they were not a major part of Mercosur (Brazil accounts for 74% of Mercosur GDP and Argentina about 23%), and if their second major trading partner were not China. We are not really in the market for the main staple of that relationship, Soybeans, and can't really compete with the manufacturing goods they dump on them. So yes an example of the vacuous nature of the leave argument but not really comparative to what is happening in Turkey

bkgirl And here a direct attack on that young secular culture 1500 academics purged. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36838347

Sorry 15000.

???? OP you seem to have exited stage left in the face of some reality messing with your prejudices?

Sorry not OP to be fair

"The turkish people have had decades of not being able to afford a passport. Access to Europe, has been the search for a golden fleece, for millions."

Load of rubbish. Getting a passport isn't a problem. Getting the travel visa is the problem - expensive and necessitates loads of documents, proof of money in the bank, DC.

"Withdrawing the (visa) deal will turn turkish public opinion against Erdogan"

Hahahahahhhaaahah! Are you fucking kidding me?

(1) Nobody cares about visas right now. Erdogan has them waving flags in the streets every night. No foreign decision will turn public opinion against him.

(2) Erdogan severely restricted international travel for Turkish passport holders, anyway. You can't leave the country if you have a green passport (i.e. civil servants). Even with a normal passport, you have to get a document from the state saying that you don't work for the government (justice, education, bureaucracy, etc) and that there is no problem with you leaving the country.

And you think visas are what Turks care about right now?

And if that looks contradictory, I meant to say that before last week, getting a passport wasn't a problem. Getting the visa was the problem.

Now the visa is the least of Turks' worries.

Hang on I totally support a secular society in which everyone can enjoy a religion if they want and all people can be treated equally regardless of sex, skin, sexual orientation etc. No I don't think purging people who do not agree with what appears to be an evolving dictator is ok. DOH! Do I think secular Turkey is wonderful, vibrant and would I like them in europe - sure. That said unsecular Turkey is different,it seems about half the nation isn't that way, in fact I see a lot of challenges to free speech, religion, education, etc - would I like to embrace that, well no actually. (Yes they have a habit of destroying images of Ataturk!) I feel sorry for people who are not extreme, they just get bullied constantly and told they have to accept it. :( Yes, all the people I know with a turkish background (they live in Germany, Luxembourg and New Zealand) all detest Erdogan. They all live normal happy lives in the west and worry for their extended families. Incidentally they certainly do not want to be told what to wear by anyone and feel they are every bit as equal to men - they are of course!