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Brexit
Original poster

A thousand lawyers send letter to Cameron over EU Referendum

338 replies

BrexitThunderbolt · 11/07/2016 09:34

It starts:
TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ALL MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

9 July 2016

Dear Prime Minister and Members of Parliament

Re: Brexit

We are all individual members of the Bars of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We are writing to propose a way forward which reconciles the legal, constitutional and political issues which arise following the Brexit referendum.

The result of the referendum must be acknowledged. Our legal opinion is that the referendum is advisory.

The European Referendum Act does not make it legally binding. We believe that in order to trigger Article 50, there must first be primary legislation. It is of the utmost importance that the legislative process is informed by an objective understanding as to the benefits, costs and risks of triggering Article 50.

link to the whole letter here

I am particularly pleased to see this included in their reasons for writing as they do:
There is evidence that the referendum result was influenced by misrepresentations of fact and promises that could not be delivered.

Since the result was only narrowly in favour of Brexit, it cannot be discounted that the misrepresentations and promises were a decisive or contributory factor in the result.

OP posts:
bkgirl · 11/07/2016 16:30

Brexit stands according to May.
A couple of percentage points would have been acceptable to the 48% had it gone their way.

roundaboutthetown · 11/07/2016 16:33

A couple of percentage points would have resulted in calls for another referendum, as you well know. Leavers haven't let up since the 1970s, so you'd be a complete idiot to believe they would have given up now if they had got 48%.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/07/2016 16:35

A couple of percentage points would have been acceptable to the 48% had it gone their way

^^ This

JoffreyBaratheon · 11/07/2016 16:39

A couple of percentage points would have been acceptable to the 48% had it gone their way.

Farage was on record saying a couple of weeks before the referendum that if it was 48%/52% in favour of Remain, he'd have campaigned for a second referendum. No doubt he'd have taken his 48% of Leavers with him.

PollyPerky · 11/07/2016 16:50

Whether it is legal or not legal, the country had a vote and the country voted to leave.How can any government now not implement what the majority voted for?

Because a referendum is a poll of opinion. It's not something that has to be carried out. The majority was very small and at least 5% of leavers have said they regret their decision now they realise that they NHS won't get £350m and immigration from the EU can't be stopped.

PollyPerky · 11/07/2016 16:51

And don't believe all May is saying.!!!!

I have friends who have contacts in No 10 and there is a whole lot of stuff going on that the public know nothing of- to try to keep Brexit from ever happening.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 11/07/2016 16:57

And don't believe all May is saying!!!!

I'd very much hope nobody does ... she is, after all, a politician Hmm

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 11/07/2016 16:58

I have friends who have contacts in No 10 and there is a whole lot of stuff going on that the public know nothing of- to try to keep Brexit from ever happening.

I have never hoped for a MN post to be true as much as this.

PigletJohn · 11/07/2016 17:05

The Outists I hear from are quite happy to continue, even knowing that the "£350m for the NHS" was a lie and the "keep foreign immigrants out" was a lie, and are quite content with the 16% loss in value of the pound.

One of them seriously claimed that the EU banned curved bananas and cucumbers.

I see no hope of changing their minds.

Alisvolatpropiis · 11/07/2016 17:14

May's statement gives her wiggle room. Brexit does indeed mean Brexit and there will be no entering via the back door...no mention of when she plans to invoke article 50 though.

JoffreyBaratheon · 11/07/2016 17:21

I don't get why Leavers are so desperate to extract 'promises' about Brexit being executed - when their own promises to 'win' that referendum were so false and reneged on within hours...

I hope Theresa May respects that promise that Brexit means Brexit as much as the Leavers intended to honour their promise re. £s for the NHS, a wonderful economy, etc.

Alisvolatpropiis · 11/07/2016 17:28

I'm not a Brexiter by any mean, it was just my initial thought upon seeing that quote.

crossroads3 · 11/07/2016 17:29

And don't believe all May is saying.!!!!

I have friends who have contacts in No 10 and there is a whole lot of stuff going on that the public know nothing of- to try to keep Brexit from ever happening.

PollyPerky this has made me happy too. What is the "whole lot of stuff"? Grin

NigellasGuest · 11/07/2016 17:47

I have friends who have contacts in No 10 and there is a whole lot of stuff going on that the public know nothing of- to try to keep Brexit from ever happening.

I have never hoped for a MN post to be true as much as this.

Hear, hear!
and I bet a whole lot of stuff went on behind the scenes to get Andrea to stand down, too.

Huppopapa · 11/07/2016 18:23

As someone who was in the meeting that led to the letter, and a signatory to it, the overwhelming feeling was that whatever is to be done it has to be legal.
There is a difference of opinion as to whether Parliament must vote but the principle of law is that if the consequences of an action are irreversible then that action should not be taken until the law is decided. In these circumstances that means wait.
As we live in a country which is governed by the rule of law I am disappointed that people should be offended by the suggestion that the future of this country for the next hundred years should just be rammed through when it is not clear that that would be legal.
That is why the government might listen to a thousand lawyers. Ultimately it will be a lawyer (in the form of a judge or a Royal Commissioner) who will decide what the legal position is: it makes sense to ask other lawyers to predict what that answer to that purely legal question might be.
If and when it gets to Parliament, the duty of elected members is - as stated above - to do their best for the country. That is not necessarily the same as doing what their electors tell them. Capital punishment, stem cell research and countless others are examples where the House has voted along the lines of what they believe is best for the country rather than following popular opinion. As Parliament did not choose in debating the European Referendum Act 2015 to suspend the conventions of Parliament that have stood for 400 years, there is no reason to suppose that they meant to be bound to vote according to the result. You may have thought they would, but they had the chance to say that; it would be so spectacular a change to require them to say it if they meant it; they didn't say it.
Finally, Mrs. May has said she will serve notice when she is assured of a better deal for the UK. That must be sensible, but it involves the possibility as with Brown's five tests for entering the euro, that it may never happen. If anyone complains "well she should do it even if we will be demonstrably worse off" then would they please exempt me and my children from the consequences.

TomHiddlestonsDignity · 11/07/2016 18:32

Huppo thanks for coming on and also thank you for signing the letter.

NigellasGuest · 11/07/2016 18:42

Yes, thank you Huppo for posting that.

kirinm · 11/07/2016 18:51

Bravo Huppa! Thanks for signing. I'm hoping that given many MPs are lawyers, they might listen to you all.

SalemsLott · 11/07/2016 18:52

Huppo very informative post.
With reference to PollyPerkin post, I suspect you are right.
You only have to look at the Tory Party donor list to see that the majority of them would not want us to leave the EU.

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 11/07/2016 19:16

Finally, Mrs. May has said she will serve notice when she is assured of a better deal for the UK. That must be sensible, but it involves the possibility as with Brown's five tests for entering the euro, that it may never happen. If anyone complains "well she should do it even if we will be demonstrably worse off" then would they please exempt me and my children from the consequences.

Couldn't agree more.

whydidhesaythat · 11/07/2016 19:40

I am a lawyer too (but of course was not invited to the meeting because I'm North- would have been nice to be asked)

Lawyers like to think we are important and that our debates change things. But that is only the case where there is a dispute referred to a court. If the matter is a commercial or diplomatic one we are not that important. We are just a road block to get round.

I Suspect that those planning to stop Brexit are playing a longer and deeper game. I hope so...

Huppopapa · 11/07/2016 20:04

An unfortunate and unnecessary comment, whydidhesaythat. The invitation went to all of Philip Kolvin QC's professional association (a Welshman) and was shared around the Bar from there. I got it via a law centre. If you're at the Bar and have an e-mail address your location was irrelevant as several Northern Irish speakers demonstrated.
This is about ensuring the rule of law throughout the United Kingdom. It is everyone's concern.

lazysummer · 11/07/2016 20:12

I so hope there are plans for sanity to prevail. Osborne is suspiciously quiet- I am hoping (in vain probably) that he will come to the rescue. I also think it has all been planned.

Peregrina · 11/07/2016 20:12

Given what has happened with Blair and Bush going it alone, as evidenced by the Chilcot report, I would sincerely hope that May would want to put it to Parliament to be absolutely sure that she has a mandate for her actions.

whydidhesaythat · 11/07/2016 20:19

No I'm a solicitor

Can't you see this is why we lost? This kind of thing? This knd of patronising comment?

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