A thousand lawyers send letter to Cameron over EU Referendum

[BrexitThunderbolt]

It starts:
TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ALL MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

9 July 2016

Dear Prime Minister and Members of Parliament

Re: Brexit

We are all individual members of the Bars of England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We are writing to propose a way forward which reconciles the legal, constitutional and political issues which arise following the Brexit referendum.

The result of the referendum must be acknowledged. Our legal opinion is that the referendum is advisory.

The European Referendum Act does not make it legally binding. We believe that in order to trigger Article 50, there must first be primary legislation. It is of the utmost importance that the legislative process is informed by an objective understanding as to the benefits, costs and risks of triggering Article 50.

link to the whole letter here

I am particularly pleased to see this included in their reasons for writing as they do:
There is evidence that the referendum result was influenced by misrepresentations of fact and promises that could not be delivered.

Since the result was only narrowly in favour of Brexit, it cannot be discounted that the misrepresentations and promises were a decisive or contributory factor in the result.

How is it like that I don't recall any kind of talk, vote or referendum regarding British citizenship

Brexit means Brexit

But what does Brexit mean? Did you personally vote for an EFTA deal with EU legislation implemented as national law, without the power to influence the law? With nearly the same amount of financial contribution?

For many people that's not what Brexit mean to them at all.

Probably because it's another lie addtobasket

GloriaGaynor

Brexit means Brexit

But what does Brexit mean? Did you personally vote for an EFTA deal with EU legislation implemented as national law, without the power to influence the law? With nearly the same amount of financial contribution?

For many people that's not what Brexit mean to them at all.

And how do ou know this?? How do I know that's the deal we're gonna get? Are you privy to imaginary negotiations that haven't even started yet? It's all speculation

or we would be setting a dangerous precedent for leaders to make nation-changing decisions without recourse to Parliament

The govt. went to parliament. That's how they got the legislation for a referendum. We already had recourse to parliament.

Erm, I did raise the advisory nature of the vote prior to the referendum itself, actually.

Have to say,I am intrigued as to how the Brexit voters will handle their visions for leaving not being released. Because some will be very disappointed indeed, that is inevitable.

I'll be displeased whatever happens but will feel some sense of schadenfreud at seeing so many who voted and got what they wanted finding that isn't the case at all.

At least we have a PM who has decent negotiating skills, so it might not be a total disaster.

Ilove

Have you considered what might happen to the British nationals living in mainland Europe following the referendum at all?

ButteredToastAndStrawberryJam

Someone on another thread was pissed because they'd just finished a degree in EU law.

They needn't worry. That's the skill that will be needest most for Brexit AND post-Brexit.

And how do ou know this?? How do I know that's the deal we're gonna get? Are you privy to imaginary negotiations that haven't even started yet? It's all speculation

Because it's a choice between and EEA/EFTA deal or a WTO deal and the latter would be economic suicide. But you know this because you researched Brexit options before you voted right?

Of course negotiations have started, informal negotiations have been going on since the vote. The information is coming out of Parliament, is coming from Theresa May's statements, is coming from the views of the Brexit MPs. The majority appear to favour that deal.

Whether it is legal or not legal, the country had a vote and the country voted to leave. How can any government now not implement what the majority voted for? I say this as a remain voter that wants to stay part of the EU*

Exactly this, I could have written this! I voted remain, but the fact of the matter is Leave won. How is it democracy to try and overturn a ruling because you don't like it, and people have voted the "wrong" way?!
Get over it. If Remain had won, would they have listened to Leave protesting?

If Remain had won, would they have listened to Leave protesting?
Yes, because Leave would have gone on and on about it as Nigel Farage said they would.

Um...law is quite an important factor in a democratic society, you can't just flagrantly ignore it as and when you fancy (unless you're really rich and can pay your accountant to find you tax loopholes).

I think if Remain had won with such a slim majority then Brexit voters would have had just as much right to challenge it. Though of course, the question of legality wouldn't have come into it.

It's not a question of over-ruling it but debating the referendum result and consequent decisions in Parliament. Parliament might vote in support of it. But it has to be tested by our democratic process imo.

Apart from anything else Article 50 requires a country to leave 'according to their constitutional requirements'. Surely a decision that major should be ratified by Parliament? Partly because if it goes wrong the blame falls solely on May and everyone will ask why on earth it wasn't put to Parliament.

Anyway, the repeal of the 1972 ECA needs to be passed by Parliament.

Quite conceivable that certain civil service departments can see a glorious opportunity for empire building thanks to brexit and will be beavering away behind the scenes to see it through. Already clear that vast amount of work by pen pushers required, jobs for life beckon.

ilove

Leavers who want Remainers to "get over it", do not realise to what an extent some of those Remainers might feel that having their EU citizenship removed is an assault on their identity. This identity might be on a par with or stronger than their British identity and therefore their grief likely cannot be got over in a matter of weeks. Without beginning to go into all the practical effects of losing that citizenship.

I know people on both "sides" (thanks for leaving us utterly divided Dave ) will have voted for spurious reasons, but when you hear some of the reasons some people voted Leave, it is hard not to think of the whole thing as a farce, "democratic" or not.

Re the EU citizenship: this is something we have had for 25 years. When I stopped to think about it, I was amazed to realise just how many people I knew were in relationships/marriages with EU partners. These aren't just people inside a London/South East bubble either. Some live in what could be called traditional working class areas. We forget how society has changed over the last generation.

No voter went to the polls in the belief that the referendum was 'advisory' - voters thought they were actually having their say, and they were right.

I don't think there's a single thread on MN where leave voters haven't asserted that they educated themselves about the issues around the EU and the referendum itself and made an informed and considered vote, so I don't really know how you can say they were unaware that the vote was advisory. This was made very clear.

I have yet to have a single Leaver explain to me what they mean by Brexit.

Do you mean

1. Retain the single market - in which case you will have to accept free movement of people and no Schengen opt out? You will have to pay into the EU and comply with almost all its regulation- as Switzerland & Norway do.

Or
2) Do you mean come out of the single market?

If (2), that is at least logically consistent, but will be disastrous for trade & our financial sector. (1) makes no sense at all - it is a worse deal than now.

Brexiters talk in vague terms about sovereignty but seem incapable of defining what they actually mean by leaving. It is very hard to respect the vote of people who seem to have no idea what they have actually voted for.

shiny I was just about to start a thread asking that exact question. I heard Ken Clarke on the radio this morning saying 'no two Brexiteers want the same thing'. This is what I've struggled with from the outset. What do they WANT? What is their vision of a post-Brexit UK?

Maybe we are fed up with justifying ourselves then being called racists and uneducated

Maybe we are finding some remainers very patronising and self righteous

Maybe because we have no need to justify our decision

I don't think leave voters need to justify their decision, but those in charge of the leave campaign who have since all scarpered, do/did have a duty to explain exactly what people were voting for.

Maybe because we have no need to justify our decision

Actually you do need to justify your decision to unleash financial and political chaos on the 63% of the electorate who did not vote for Leave. If you cannot justify your vote or even explain what you were voting for, don't expect the rest of us to respect it.

Shinynewusername - exactly.

I see no reason why the economic and other interests of half the population should be ridden roughshod over as a result of it, and it disgusts me to hear people argue that they should. I wasn't daft enough to vote for this idiocy and I'm damned if i see if I and my family should suffer for it.

Yet you are quite happy to ride roughshod over my interest and the democratic result that 52% voted for?