Do people genuinely feel they are a 'European Citizen'? And why?

[mrsvilliers]

Genuinely interested and not having a dig at anybody. This has come up on my social media a lot recently and culminated today in DM informing me she had managed to dredge up an Irish relative from somewhere which meant she could apply for an Irish passport. When I asked her why she informed me she was a European citizen and want to remain one. Fair enough but I am genuinely baffled. I speak two European languages, have travelled, worked and lived extensively in Europe and would never refer to myself as a European citizen. European yes, in that I am not African or Asian or North/South American etc but not in reference to being a citizen. Honestly genuinely interested and can't ask on social media as would get flayed!!

No not really

Cultures differ greatly but there are also many similarities

I am British/English and I feel that when travelling as my British ways I am not aware that I have become apparent and I like that I like all countries have their own quirks and cultures. I can always spot British abroad as my German friends spot Germans, Italians can spot Italians and so on

I feel European and am now applying for Italian citizenship to remain European. I feel less English than I did two weeks ago. I actually feel a bit ashamed to say I am English now.

Gosh I never said anything about colonialism, or the 'right' commonwealth. My family is ethnically diverse. As I said, we are spread across five continents and the Commonwealth has no coercive elements, so each member sets it own laws on immigration etc. We do have a common legal background and shared history and, one of the reasons that Britain and Australia are ethnically diverse countries is that they have, historically, welcomed people from all over the world.

Calamara - you didn't really need to; there is a particular set of assumptions that Australians are hyper focused on Britain, that we have 'extended family' here more than in any one of a dozen other countries, that we particularly care when Britain (or
rather England) beats us at sport or that the UK is somehow seen as central to national discourse or as the 'mother country' in modern Australia.

I certainly don't think that the fact my great-great (and great-great-great) grandparents came from these islands gives me any special claim to right to work or live here over and above any other country on earth.

Mistigri maybe I haven't read the thread closely enough, but where is the animosity to being "British" on this thread? The only aggression has come from - you - with your weird post about the european flag having an effect on your blood pressure (if that's true, you need help).

There was a s snide comment about people being 'little Englanders' to which I responded (Page 4, post 18 or thereabouts).

I wasn't 'aggressive' about the EU flag, just stated that it raises my blood pressure when I see it, as it represents to me a institution that has gone wrong and has no interest in changing. I don't need help thanks; it will be gone from the UK eventually.

In Brussels we get referred to as Brits, hence my use of the term. One of the international schools here is the British School of Brussels, not the UK one, so it's a term in common usage.

I agree with a poster that pointed out when people often say they are European or feel European they are thinking more of the sophisticated and attractive ways of the French or Italians that we may have taken on

I think culturally we are more like the Germans than either French or Italians but it just doesn't sound quite so sophisticated

OK Jassy. I am a bit aware of that, but I didn't think it was that sensitive. More focussed on the monarchy.

My Mum is an Australian Citizen, my Dad a Canadian citizen, my husband is African, my BiL is a New Zealander and my cousins are half Malaysian.

I am Scottish, and European. I speak two European languages and am learning a third. I want to live and work in another European country one day and to be honest am kicking myself that I didn't do it years ago after I graduated. I do not feel British at all, and would never describe myself as such.
I am very angry at the thought of losing my European citizenship and the opportunities that it offers. I hope it doesn't come to that, and being Scottish maybe it won't...

I am Scottish by birth and consider myself to be British and European in equal measure, as well as being Scottish and part Irish.
I did 3 Euro languages at school and am currently studying a forth for my own pleasure ( Italian). I travel to most Euro countries though have been much further from time to time. I like Euro culture and identify with it.

Brexit will not make me feel any less European - that isn't predicated on weaslying politicians.

As for "English" despite living here just about all of my life I do not consider myself English at all. There's v little I like about "English culture" apart from the brilliant sense of humour.

what is European culture excatly ?

Well that's a pretty big question to break down! Principles of the French Revolution, a social democratic flavour, lots of history, a kindness to others that you don't see in the U.S for example, a sophistication in philosophy (though the far eastern countries have it over us one that one imo), a really attractive geography from the fjords to Med beaches.
That sort of thing.

I am not sure I would add kindness to others on the list as this is very recent history isn't the difficulties America have directly from European culture

No doubt some of Europe is far more tolerant than many parts of the world and forward looking. Did our grandparents and great grandparents (who are European) feel as European as we do now

I have Asian family who see themselves as European because their great grandmother was German, Irish or Dutch but culturally they are not at all

I guess it's a personal feeling

That breakdown of European culture lends itself far more to Western Europe though. How similar is British culture to that of Latvia, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Lithuania etc?

Going back to point on Australia/Commonwealth, a lot of my Australian friends who have no links/shared ancestry with the UK actually feel very comfortable in the UK. Things like the parliamentary system etc is based on that in Britain. The concept of individualism is also most common in the Anglosphere.

Yes there is more diversity now in Australia, there is no longer just one, common, shared ancestry ie that of Britain. DH is Australian/African and has to go back to his g-g-grandparents for any ties to the UK. He doesn't feel any ties to Britain, he'd rather stick needles in his eyes than call Britain the motherland. However aspects of Britain are very, very familiar to him based on him growing up in Australia.

I wonder if people who identify more with America would like to adopt American employment law or an American style health care system or gun control laws or (lack of) food and farming and regulations ... The slim chance of staying out of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (if the EU accepts it despite all the opposition, which I hope won't happen but may) is about the only real upside of leaving the EU for the UK.

Given that obtaining weapons in Europe doesn't seem too hard (AK47s available at Midi Sunday market in Brussels if you know where to look), then gun control sounds good. I don't suppose they were legally owned weapons used for Charlie Hebdo or the Paris attacks in November last year.

There was a car stopped en route to France from the Balkans packed with weapons last year, I'll bet they weren't legal either.

I consider myself European first and no that is not because I want to dress like a Frenchwoman and eat like an Italian. If anything, I personally have been more drawn towards central and Eastern Europe. I feel uncomfortable with this West/East divide. Poles, Czechs, Hungarians view themselves as central Europeans now. They have equally amazing cultures but because we don't tend to visit them as much or learn their languages in school, we don't experience them in the same way.

www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html

In the United States, the death rate from gun homicides is about 31 per million people compared to one or two per million in most European countries scaryteacher - the US is an extreme outlier on gun deaths compared to any other rich western country. But I'm sure that's fine as long as most of those deaths are accidental or domestic incidents with legally owned guns...

What are your views on TTIP? American maternity laws? American labour laws generally? Annual leave? What protection UK employees have is largely linked to EU law... perhaps you'd like a US model for the UK?

As for the things that are legal in food and agriculture in America ... not an attractive prospect.

That breakdown of European culture lends itself far more to Western Europe though. How similar is British culture to that of Latvia, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Lithuania etc?

Not at all. You can't compare some wild savages with the cultivated, civilised and well-bred British. Think Katie Price, TOWIE, Jeremy Kyle's guests, Cheryl Cole, Daily Mail, The Sun, Prince Andrew.

Yes totally I feel European, I work with a team based in five European countries, and we interact daily. This week has been horrendous, I don't have words to describe my embarrassment, the shame I felt. I feel heartbroken as if an iron curtain has gone down between them and me in the UK. It has shocked me just how upset I am about it, I feel as if my whole identity has been forcibly taken from me.

These two articles describe this sense of European identity well, the first one made me burst into tears - again.

An open letter to my friends in Europe
medium.com/@GeorgePeretzQC/an-open-letter-to-my-friends-in-europe-867dcf98669f#.ewe59usnz

Healing the post-referendum divide: the need for a compromise on identity
medium.com/@GeorgePeretzQC/healing-the-post-referendum-divide-the-need-for-a-compromise-on-identity-615be9e58106#.ovge76690

I feel European. My grandparents came from other European countries, so maybe that's why.

OK Jassy. I am a bit aware of that, but I didn't think it was that sensitive. More focussed on the monarchy.

Not particularly sensitive, just something I find quite bizarre.

I see myself as English and the British.

English/British and European. Speak 2 languages. DH is French. Have lived in France, Germany and Belgium. Am going to apply for dual citizenship. As is DH.

That breakdown of European culture lends itself far more to Western Europe though. How similar is British culture to that of Latvia, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Lithuania etc?

Actually I spent some time in Slovenia last summer and felt very at home there - lovely country, and the culture was certainly no more alien to me than Los Angeles or New York. My (British) friend who lives in Prague also says the Czechs are culturally more similar to us than you'd think (and yes, they regard themselves as more central than eastern European).