...to ask Brexiters just one question?

[101handbags]

Background, I'm a disappointed IN voter, but I accept the result and no way do I think we should have another referendum. I'd like to ask those who voted 'Out' if they could tell me, based on what they heard/read/discussed during the campaign, exactly what they understood by the term 'take control of our borders' as used during the campaign. I'm just curious and also worried if/when some of these people who voted out don't get what they think they voted for.

What the fuck do you think "take back control" means?

Have the right to decide who comes in and how many.

It's not that difficult.

The Australians in particular have a history of distinctly dodgy immigration policies. Indeed. The key word being history....as in 100 years ago.

Oh, and stop lying, BertrandRussell. I have seen you being offered explanation and after explanation. If you don't understand them or would prefer not to accept them is your problem. And, frankly, if you'd troubled to properly read up on the issue in the run up to the referendum you'd be well aware of issues like "sovereignty" and so on.

I voted remain but I am well aware that there are enough perfectly sound arguments in favour of Brexit for this wholesale bosom-beating to be ill-informed and childish.

I had no interest in borders. I made my EU decision before the referendum was announced.

^this

I didn't pay any attention to the campaigns, everyone knows both sides peddle lies don't they? Best to do your own research.

This too.

Voting out for me had nothing to do with immigration. I have no problem with people from other countries living and working here.

For me I would only want to be a part of the EU if the EU was accountable to the people they serve. As it stands currently, they are not. That is not democracy to me.

@ ForTheLoveOfSocks

Yes, it was so undemocratic what with the way we elected our MEPs. And the way that our democratically elected government, along with all the other democratically elected governments of member states, appointed a democratically elected minister to sit on the Council of Ministers. And the way our democratically elected government then chose a Commissioner. And then the way those Commissioners were subject to hearings by our democratically elected MEPs before appointment ...

Yup, massive deficit of democracy and accountability there.

Another thread to hide

I was a firm remain voter & campaigned for it however, on the doorstep a lot of people had fears around unlimited EU migration. I spoke to a town planner, who had concerns about how to actually plan for 30 years time, when there was no number to guesstimate at. I got the impression that it wasn't the immigration per se but, the rapid change & not having control of the numbers.
I on the other hand welcome mass migration, know the benefits of it far outway the negatives & am more concerned the country is royally screwed financially. After years of clearing the mess that Brown left us with our economy will end up lower than a pythons plums

Well said Audeca

The U.k, has it so right with the undemocratic House Of Lords & a monarchy.... I think people pick & choose their negative rhetoric to suit them

To be fair, a lot of Australians are angry at how refugees and migrants are treated - not allowed onto Australian soil and instead put into detention camps on Nauru.

Some of the stories coming out of these camps are awful.

I support Leave for numerous reasons but it is important to remember that Australian immigration policies aren't the uniting utopia that everyone seems to believe.

I understood the phrase to mean that our parties would be able to propose in their manifestos new approaches to immigration. My expectation would be that the Tories would have proposed a points system, and the Labour party - because they no longer care about the working classes at all - would have proposed something much the same as we have now.

Then the electorate would choose which route they wanted to proceed with in an election. My chief concern was that the British people would have the choice whether to maintain mass immigration or to restrict it rather than this being under the control of the EU.

Whether the Tories now support continued free movement is not really relevant. Once we have completed the Brexit process the electorate may choose a party who will institute further immigration controls. This is our democratic right. This may be a rude awakening for Remainers as the most likely outcome here is a UKIP landslide.

Zero unskilled migration

So we should have a zero-tolerance policy on refugees? What about child refugees? What should we do about the child refugees already in the UK?

And how do you feel about the possibility Brexit will result in the border (and thus the refugee camps) being moved from Calais to Dover?

Cameron has said we will be taking families from the Syrian camps which I think is the right thing to do. The vast majority in the Calais camps are economic migrants from a mixture of Middle Eastern and African countries. Had they been genuine asylum seekers they travelled through many safe countries (including France) where they could have applied for asylum.

The French PM has said that the Calais camp will remain where it is, irrespective of the wishes of the local mayor.

The is also a lot of unskilled work that still needs to be done. No matter what the papers say, there aren't millions of unemployed Brits with no qualifications just queuing up to work in coffee shops and bag lettuce doing seasonal farm work.

Given the high rates of unemployment around the world, there is nothing stopping the UK allowing unskilled migrants in to do this work though - just on a more controlled basis.

This is what most other countries, outside the EU, do.

The answer is, very few on mn will answer that, as they arent those voters, they voted for other reasons

Audeca

Approximately less than a 3rd of those that voted voted for the current government how can that be democracy?

If I don't like the choices I have to spoil my ballot. How can not being able to vote against all of those standing be democracy?

I think most Brexiters on MN weren't interested in immigration.
I suspect most Brexiters not on MN weren't interested in immigration.

Get your MP to lobby to change the voting system then Boney

I am aware as a remainer I was part of a 36% minority

TheNaze73

Already done.
Campaigning for a change already doing it.

But the point was that not everyone thinks that the current voting system is fair or democratic.

For me it means being able to filter who comes into the UK. I will welcome immigrants providing the are self supporting and do not have criminal records.

Anyone who has been to the USA knows that you won't get in if you have a criminal record and every visitor is fingerprinted at border control.

This is what I would like for the UK as well as the ability to deport any foreign national who commits a crime on our shores.

**longfingernails-bang on with both your posts!

I thought it was to do with halting coastal erosion.

Just to come back to your point Audeca, there is a lot that is undemocratic about the EU. The only elected members are not allowed to propose laws, the Commission has reduced parliamentary readings from 2 to 1, the Commission are allowed to ignore "suggestions" from a majority MEP vote and implement laws anyway and Jean Claude Juncker was the only name on the ballot paper and has pushed for increased political integration since his appointment. Yes there are problems with UK democracy but why pretend there aren't also problems with the EU?

For me, take control of our borders should look firstly as to why we have more people than ever using food banks. Why we have an entire generation who may only ever be on zero hours contracts. Why millions of people have to pay extortionately high private rents and may never get a mortgage.

Why we have such a high divide between the haves and the have nots. Why people experience such a lack of community cohesion. Why the NHS is so overburdened. Why my DMum has to teach classes of 38 pupils and has learnt basic phrases in 8 other languages.

Why people are seen as being feckless and lazy for having a scrap of self-esteem left and not wanting to work for £3 an hour. Why people think that those who are given handouts instead of constructive help should be grateful. Why families have to be divided or make difficult decisions just because they fell in love with someone who has the "wrong" passport.

Not all of this is a product of the EU, but it is now obvious that there is a "disease" that has infected a large population of the country. Millions of people have been suffering for a long, long time and have been ignored. Unfortunately only UKIP have been listening and have used this sentiment for nefarious means.

We need to somehow educate without being patronising, listen without assuming, work together without sneering. Calling these people stupid, racist, xenophobic, ignorant and describing them as turkeys for Christmas is unbelievable patronising and elitist. People have valid concerns.