EU announce full on superstate- EU army, EU taxes, EU criminal law, EU central bank,

[BritBrit]

Thankfully the UK has escaped! EU announce a full on EU superstate with nations being stripped of every power, nations won't be allowed to have their own armies, the EU will control tax, criminal law, have an EU central bank etc

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

Mother and twofingers

Sigh.

These stories are not true. But they are good stories: gripping, frightening, a bit sexy. Definitely something you want to read, since after all it possibly concerns your future, right?

Newspapers want to sell papers, to make money. To sell papers they need good stories like these.

So they take a kernel of true fact. And then they make it sellable by imagining how this kernel of truth can be twisted into a Frankenstein.

Now, anyone wanting to rebutt these outrageous exaggerations will tend to do that with a reasonable appeal to facts. Here, I'll demonstrate:

• EU army: there has been a Common Foreign and Security Policy between some (not all) member states of the EU for a couple decades now. It's aim is to have cooperation on some military matters where these member states would want joint action. It could perhaps save money, given that not all countries would need to send their own contingents when a single one would do.

• EU Tax: since the end of 2015, a new EU rule has come into force, whereby a "tax number" (for UK citizens, the NI number will do) is used to identify individuals who bank abroad. This is to prevent tax evasion across borders, by helping national authorities understand who is paying tax where, as they should be.

• EU Central Bank: The European Central Bank is one of the institutions of the EU, and has been for 70 years. Its role has increased to supervision of the euro since the creation of that currency, which some, but not all, EU members use. Its role could continue to increase for euro-zone members, as and when they choose to deepen their cooperation in the euro-zone.

Problem is, anyone who's already been gripped by the sexy Frankenstein version of this first has confirmation bias: Aha! So there is some truth in this! So it could become as bad as that article said!

Isn't that how you felt reading my boring factual presentation?

That is how populist arguments are made, and fear whipped up. And then that fear is used by people who would like to use them to, let's say, consolidate their standing as the next Prime Minister?

Grass, Mother is right. The whole article in the telegraph is saying that Brexiteers were wrong and the risk of an EU superstate is highly unlikely. It actually goes against your argument so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make by posting it?

You'd almost think people wanted to believe the stories as it appeals to their beliefs.

There was an interesting discussion on how people form opinions and then look for the data they want to support their opinions.

Daily Express headlines are fascinating. Doom and gloom, house prices, immigrants. X cures cancer, Y causes cancer.

It's being reported all over the continental media - Poland, Ukraine, Austria etc.

It's not something The Express just made up ....

Russian News site

www.pravdareport.com/news/world/europe/27-06-2016/134834-france_germany_superstate-0/

The problem the Express has is the boy who cried wolf. It's reputation means that many people take its headlines with a massive pinch of salt because it's not known as being reliable or unbiased.

All stories relating to this semester to co e from TVP, which is a posh news channel. Here is the original report:

www.tvp.info/25939371/nasz-news-superpanstwo-zamiast-ue--ultimatum-francji-i-niemiec

Also, on the Express website (and a similarly credible story...)

Elvis Presley still alive

'Cause Russia has no motive to tear the EU apart, does it?

Russia luffs us, everyone knows that.

FFS.

And here is the original document, the source of the news.

www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument

"Telegraph News
Unnoticed by Brexiteers, the idea of an EU super-state is quietly dying"

Headline from The Telegraph story.....

The stupidity of some people, this will never happen no matter how much Junker dreams it. All member states would have to agree, some of you are worse than the Area 51 believers

First rule of analysing a headline - who is telling me this and why are they telling me this.

Once you've done that, you can then move on to the details.

For some people it's 'Gosh, this headline agrees with my opinions. It's great to have a paper that tells me I'm right'

I must go on social media and share this headline with people who all think like me.

And here is the original document, the source of the news

www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument*

Nice try flaccid but even that won't convince some on here that this isn't something made up by the sensational media, the Express, the Russians and so on for us 'stupid' 'worse than Area 51 believers' to get excited about.

It's a document authored by Jean-Marc Ayrault the French Minister of Foreign affairs and German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier - representing the two most powerful countries in the EU.

It's not a case of 'believing' anything, or being stupid or any of those other dismissive, snide comments directed at those of us who dare to raise our heads above the parapet and go against the consensus of comment on here.

It is merely pointing out that two foreign ministers from the two largest countries in the EU have authored this, it exists, it is being circulated and discussed and it reflects the views of some within the European project.

It's great news though isn't it?

The EU army can invade us, and then things can go back to how they were on Thursday.

Can't wait!

Daily express?

This bollocks hasn't shown up anywhere else

It's rumour, superstition, misappropriation of the facts and basically you might as well have designed that sentence wearing a tinfoil hat and scratching at your balls with a pork scratching.

I've read that three times now.

Where does it say that France and Germany want an EU army and the disposal of domestic armed forces?

Aww Laurie don't ruin the magic...

I'm looking forward to getting French nylons and real Belgian chocolate when we welcome in the troops...

Why, when I ask perfectly sensible questions such as:

What's Brext's master plan then?
or
What long term gain from Brexit can I look foward to?
or
Where, exactly, in that linked to document, does it say that France and Germany want to scrap domestic armed forces in favour of an EU army?

Do the threads always go quiet?

It happens on Facebook too.

Are all the Brexiters too busy partying with Elvis to reply?

So, in a document on the internet (so it must be true) two government officials set out some ideas about discussing sometime in the future a few ideas about improvement of internal and external EU security (Page 4, I did read it) and this is twisted into France and Germany proposing to scrap domestic forces and installing a common EU army and ultimately take over the world

Brexiteers, as always, don't like facts, just hyperbole and conjecture.

No facts.

But fear.

I might just go play with the daisy's on the green.

Flaccidunicorn - believe me, I would love to say Polish society is free of people who believe populist rubbish they read as long as it confirms their fear of forrin powers coming here and telling us what to do. Alas, I cannot.