Citizens of the World (EU citizens)

[MyMacMess]

I quite fancy a change. If 'Great' Britain does not work any longer for me and my family I will be prepared to pack up and leave.

Can we have a thread with suggestions of lots of amazing, international, spirited and open and tolerant places one might want to relocate to?

A version of relocation relocation Euro or Global style.

I start:

Sweden especially Stockholm
Edinburgh
Paris
Berlin
Melbourne

some of these are obviously subject to immigration restrictions.
Any other ideas?

The third largest political party (Sverigedemokraterna) in Sweden is basically a neo-nazi party. They rule Sweden out for me.

Bye - you'll especially enjoy Australia where the majority are openly racist. Fucking abos seems to occur in every other sentence despite me remonstrating with them.

A lot of countries will have some racist sides, incl Britain btw.

Canada is a good place atm as it welcomes foreigners with open arms (Both parties have acknowledged the country needs 'new blood').
I suspect that where you live (the town) is just as important as the country itself (as I experienced myself).

Canada would be my first choice. The only problem is that it is a little too close to the USA.

" Fucking abos seems to occur in every other sentence despite me remonstrating with them."
Fair enough, I remember this from when I visited Pert a few Years ago. The guys saying this was a Brit married to an Australian though but it seemed to be acceptable.

I'd love to go to Canada. But where?

I mean it wasn't acceptable to me but to others.

You do realise that you don't have the right to go anywhere in the world? I don't want to be a wet blanket but I think as a country we tend to wear blinkers that make us think everybody loves and wants us - this is definitely not the case and now more than ever!

I am a European citizen allegro. I don't know if I would pass as an acceptable immigrant to Canada or Australia. I am lucky to have certain professional skills as does my dh that may make us 'desirable' immigrants. But who knows. This is the time to explore our options.

But you also realisese that it is totally OK nowdays to be immigrating to other countries.
What is needed is to respect whatever laws they have in place, that's it.

Not everyone wants us but some countries will be very happy to welcome highly trained people for example.

And it probably won't be much ore difficult than to apply for the PR card here anyway
(That's from me trying to fill said document and having had a look at what is required to go to Canade for example)

Yes I know! I am hoping to become a EU citizen soon too (well, I still am for the moment but am applying for EU citizenship) but I don't think we should take it for granted :-)

Do you really think you find less racists and bigots in France, Germany and in Scotland than here? I remember visiting Munich about 10 years ago. I was in the queue at c and a and observed the lady at the checkout and I were the only white people (not that I care). The women in front of me was Turkish and really struggled to communicate and checkout lady was getting annoyed. When it was my turn, she said in German ' we're the only Germans here. There's too many foreigners coming in this country.' I was terrified to open my mouth! That's one story but I've heard many stories of narrow minded and unwelcoming Germans. I think we have always been a welcoming nation (my dh is an immigrant btw) and far friendlier than other countries.

I think our right wing press has played a BIG role in changing our previous more tolerant attitude to foreigners.

lem having lived in a few diferent countries, I can tell you that racism is present everywhere.
Sometimes it is more obvious than others, sometimes quite covert (I personally believe that the UK has been quite racist for some time but it was very covert rather right in your face).
But it's there.

Does anyone know more about Canada? My dad, in his youth, applied for the equivalent of a Green card, many years ago, with his then fiancé before he met my mum. His fiancé dumped him before getting married and took off with my dad's friend . Soon after he met my mum to whom he has been married for 50 years. When his 'Green Card' (not sure what it's called for Canada) arrived, my mum was already expecting my db so he never used his right to emigrate to Canada. For some reason, I ahem always thought of moving there. Maybe this is our springboard.

Yes •Plato• I have too. Therefore I don't appreciate people making out there is something extra racist or xenophobic about Britain. Actually dh is from the Middle East and VERY widely travelled. I've just told him what was said on this thread and he couldn't believe it. He finds the uk one of the most tolerant countries in Europe.

lem please don't minimise our fears about being at the receiving end of racist verbal or physical attacks and possibly discrimination in the future. It has already started. Today my dh had a meeting with his team on this matter. 25% of his staff are from the EU and they were all, men and women, some of them British citizens who have accents or look Eastern European worried about racism. This country used to be less overtly xenophobic but, as we have heard, the referendum has unleashed a nasty side isn some people. Your dh is very lucky that he has never experienced it himself but please don't speak for all of us.

Where did I say the UK was extra racist? .

I said racism here was covert, not that it was extreme....

Mymac you say they are worried about experiencing racism rather than having actually experienced it. I think that's ridiculous tbh. On what basis are they worried??

I can understand that fear.

It's not because you haven't experienced xenophobia (yet) that it doesn't happen.
Knowing that there is more and more xenophobia will make you more worried.
A bit like knowing that you can attacked at night if yu are alone will make you more worried and will push you to take some precautions.

Fwiw I haven't been on the receiving end of that sort of behaviour. But my dcs have :(:(
As plenty of other people who are either from some other EU countries or have 'a dual heritage' (ie one of their parents is from another EU country).
It's not all in our heads unfortunately :(

Lem I am having to retype my message a couple of times to remain polite and keep in line with MN guidelines in response to your pp.

racist incidents have sordid by 60& over the weekend.

Most will never bee recorded so the actual number os probably much higher.

Here, have yourself a lovely bed time read about some more famous people who have been subjected to, yes, racism, that have made it into the papers.

A former Byker Grove actress has told how she was subjected to racist abuse in a family café amid reports of increased hate crimes linked to the EU referendum result.

Playwright and actress Maria Mcateer was with her mother and three-year-old daughter when she heard a group of people talking loudly about Brexit before launching into a racist song.

She told the Standard: “Our drinks had just been served when folks on the table beside me ended their loud xenophobic sounding conversation and started reciting ‘Eeeny, Meeny, Miney, Mo catch a n* by the toe,’ over and over.”

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/actress-subjected-to-racist-abuse-as-hate-crimes-spike-after-brexit-vote-a3281286.html

A BBC journalist today told how she was left in “utter shock” after being racially abused and branded “a p*ki”.

Sima Kotecha, who works on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, revealed she was subjected to the racist insult amid reports of increased hate crimes linked to the EU referendum result.

Ms Kotecha, from Basingstoke, tweeted: “In utter shock: just been called p**i in my home town! Haven't heard that word here since the 80s..!"

The post has been retweeted more than 1,000 times this afternoon and Ms Kotecha has been inundated with messages of support, including from fellow journalists and MPs, who branded the incident “vile” and “disgusting”.

www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/bbc-journalist-sima-kotecha-in-utter-shoin-utter-shock-bbc-radios-sima-kotecha-reveals-she-was-a3282041.html

Now lem please may I politely ask if you know of any amazing places, where people are fairly open, fairly minded accepting of immigrants, and where it's cool and fun to live? That's after all what this thread is about.

London used to be just such a place, not any longer so it seems. I'd love to hear some suggestions but please stop minimising people's real worries about racist abuse. I also don't know where you get it from that I have not experienced any abuse for being a foreigner or any of my RL friends. I honestly have no idea what you are on about.

If you don't have anything to answer wrt op you might like it better over at the "only for brexit voters" thread.

*soared, auto-correct, though they are obi sordid

You had to retype your post several times?? Trust me, me too. I have a Muslim dh and Muslim teenage sons. You don't have the fucking moral high ground here. I've had kids tell my 11 year old to go back to his own country. We even had to get the police involved. Yet none of my family go around saying they 'fear' racism. They get on with it. And to reiterate, dh and I have lived and travelled to many countries and I have been shocked at some of the racism directed towards my dh from people of other European nationalities. Don't get me started. Dh thinks of the UK as an open minded and tolerant country because he had a generally positive experience with the exception of a bunch of chavs. That is why we have chosen to settle here.

I think you will find racists in most places around the world, BUT in a world where more and more countries are leaning to the far right in face of economic uncertainty and austerity you'll find that Canada has bucked that trend and instead gone left and become an even more open and tolerant nation. Obviously there are still racists in Canada, but I cannot think of a Canadian Nigel Farage or Marine Le Pen, for example. And if 6 months of potential for snow isn't up your street, Vancouver has a very similar climate to Britain

Ok lem I think I understand a little bit better where you are coming from and I am sorry to hear your family has had to endure this. I don't understand though how someone with your experience is unable to empathise with other people who worry about racism but each to their own. I wouldn't want to speculate whether you dislike people from Europe because you mention specifically how your dh has been treated badly abroad but we can leave it there I think.

wispaxmas thanks that's great to know.