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Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

First Brexit employment casualties

616 replies

Stopyourhavering · 25/06/2016 15:02

dd graduated this week, happy times.....phoned this morning to say that 2 of her friends, who had also graduated ( business/law degrees) and been offered jobs had been telephoned by their prospective employers to say that because of Brxit, they were now basing their headquarters in Berlin rather than UK and would no longer be employing them......I fear this is just the start....I am so angry and upset for our youth. My ds and dd2 are so angry and feel betrayed....I wish 16 &17 year olds had been given a vote as I feel they had a better handle on the repercussions of Brexit

OP posts:
Bumblebzz · 25/06/2016 16:51

@Limer maybe manufacturing industries can afford to sit and wait but I can assure you that service based industries will not run the risk of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let me break it down, to sell a financial product to someone in an EU country you either base yourself in the EU or you negotiate individually with each member state. No bank in their right mind would do the latter. And no bank would sit and wait it out while their clients and prospective clients all move their relationships to an EU entity because of the protection and certainty that offers (business likes certainty, boring predictable and stable certainty much, much more than they like risk, even if that risk is accompanied by the possibility of an upside)

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 25/06/2016 16:51

I agree Flumpty, I've not put it well but basically it'll be a good excuse used to save money/cut jobs with a shrug of shoulders to be told it's Brexit.

I was made redundant during that recession as well (marketing).

FlumptyDumpty · 25/06/2016 16:52

Really sandra? Sounds like an extremely, ruthlessly, well-organised one to me. They lined up their preferred candidates to take on if we voted remain, to ensure they would be ready to start on time if needed, but now they are not they can be coldly dispensed with.

TanTanNubuck · 25/06/2016 16:52

balletgirl, nowhere did I say you were lying. I was simply pointing out that all this anecdotal chatter isn't really adding very much to the discussion.

buckingfrolicks · 25/06/2016 16:53

I have been recruiting for more staff for my business - I'm putting both those jobs on hold indefinitely while I wait to see what the effect of this is on my business, which has nothing to do with Europe, we don't do business there, but the knock on effect on our clients may well be that they stop investing in my company's services.

So I can tell you for a fact that there are two people who could have had a well-paid permanent full time job with my business, now don't. Directly thanks to the leave vote.

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 16:53

I don't know the name of the company. It's a post I saw on Facebook from the mum of a child who used to go to the same dance classes as my daughter.

And I wouldn't post it anyway.

Why on earth not? 400 redundancies made on the day of the Brexit result and as a direct consequence of it would be on the national news, surely - what difference would naming it make, or at least saying what type of business it was? Confused

FlumptyDumpty · 25/06/2016 16:54

I agree it will be a good excuse for some. Unfortunately there will also be massive, permanent harm from all the good well-paying jobs that will be diverted from our shores b

bettybiggestballs · 25/06/2016 16:56

Another baffled by the denial and doubt. I personally cancelled two projects yesterday because of the result. We had been holding for the result to progress. Currency fluctuations with some elements that have narrow margins meant the financial risk of these going ahead far outweighed potential upside. This means we are no longer spending tens of thousands of pounds on the uk produced ingredients and we won't be needing the various (uk based again) contractors, consultants and freelancers to implement the project. I just don't understand why people don't understand how this can happen in a day. We had been holding on until the result to decide which way to go and the plans were developed months and months ago.

FlumptyDumpty · 25/06/2016 16:57

I'll be alright in the short term. Changing laws and regulations will provide more, rather than less, work and opportunities for me for years to come. I just feel for all those who won't be so lucky, and for how our country will be much poorer. At the same time as taking away the opportunity to seek work elsewhere. Tragic.

LaurieMarlow · 25/06/2016 16:58

This article suggesting London could lose 40,000 jobs as Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup relocate jobs from London.

fortune.com/2016/06/24/london-brexit-jobs/

To sum up why they're taking this action

"Many U.S. banks have set up shop in London because it gives them access to trade European markets without the restrictions that you face outside of the EU". Frankfurt is poised to make a killing out of this btw.

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 16:58

Of course companies will altesyd be able to start moving. Any decent company worth its salt will have had brexit plan in place since the referendum was announced.

Yes it would. But one that had four hundred redundancy letters prepped and ready to go by yesterday was one that was probably always going to shut up shop anyway and Brexit provided a handy excuse. Or (more likely) it didn't happen quite like that at all, and they have been put on notice of being 'at risk' while the finer details of a relocation or possible closure are worked out.

Donatellalymanmoss · 25/06/2016 16:59

a poor company that couldn't organise a piss up more like a country with too many people who failed to recognise the competitive advantage of the U.K. economy as a whole was primarily derived from being the largest English speaking nation in the EU.

Peasandsweetcorn · 25/06/2016 17:00

We have spent the weekend trying to work out the logistics of how our lives will work when DH's job relocates to Europe as he was told on Friday it was. He and his colleagues were told before the referendum that this would happen if there was Brexit so it wasn't a surprise to them. Indeed, we have been discussing it for weeks intermittently and in earnest from 5am on Friday.
I have a job I love, DC settled in schools, parents & MIL in OK health and a few hours away from where we live now but at least in the same country. I don't want to be forced to move. I'm not even sure I or we will be allowed. What will the visa arrangements be for workers? For their spouses? For their DC?
Unless we negotiate a deal which allows free trade (so the same as now or something which allows EEA) DH will never work in this country again. Or at least not at a level which permits him to pay 40% tax. I know we benefit from circa 55% per cent of his income but a portion of that pays for the nanny, cleaner etc, none of whose services we'd need any need.
Back to DH's job...we're thinking that we would move closer to my job downsizing in the process (and necessitating a change of school & change of childcare arrangements) & he would try and persuade his boss to let him work one or, ideally, two days a week from home and we'd have to buy or rent an apartment in the country they relocate to (hence the downsizing). Of course, other than continuity & redundancy costs, there is no reason for DH's employer to employ him in the new location. I am sure that there will be plenty of locals who could do the job.
So, yes, companies are looking at their contingency plans and are looking at them seriously. Most want certainty & stability. They're not going to wait for the outcome of the negotiations. There has already been stagnation in the markets in recent months due to the referendum. People were hoping to "get back to normal". "Normal" has been turned on its head so some of these companies will go & find a normal rather than await the outcome of negotiations, especially if there is a general election along the way as, personally, I am sure there will be.

Bumblebzz · 25/06/2016 17:00

I'm seeing now why Leave won...unbelievable how people do not understand how business and the economy works, it has been repeated over and over again over the last 3 months that this would happen. Go and educate yourselves or stick your heads in the sand, your choice, but i despair for this country now, I really do. The point is that regardless of the outcome of th negotiations now, significant damage has been done already to the UK economy. £350mm a day, even if it were an accurate figure, does not come close to covering that damage.

dArtagnansCrumpet · 25/06/2016 17:01

Jobs have been moving abroad for ages up north as a previous poster mentioned with twinnings.

No-one cared then though cos they are all working class, racist thickos rolls eyes

Because it's gonna happen to all the southeners, with more well to do folk people are suddenly taking notice.

mamamea · 25/06/2016 17:04

"There will be many firms relocating to EU companies. Contingency arrangements are already in place and will just need to be invoked."

Rubbish. Nobody knows what shape Brexit will take yet.

Here's for instance JP Morgan's statement:

"J.P. Morgan has 16,000 employees in the U.K. We are extremely proud of the work they do and our long history in the country. Regardless of today's outcome, we will maintain a large presence in London, Bournemouth and Scotland, serving local clients as we have for more than 150 years.

The framework of the U.K.'s engagement with the EU, including trade agreements, will be negotiated over a period of years. For the moment, we will continue to serve our clients as usual, and our operating model in the U.K. remains the same.

In the months ahead, however, we may need to make changes to our European legal entity structure and the location of some roles. While these changes are not certain, we have to be prepared to comply with new laws as we serve our clients around the world. We will always do our best to take care of our people and do the right thing during times of change.

We recognize the potential for market volatility over the next few weeks and we are ready to help our clients work through it. As of today, there are no changes to the structure of our clients' relationships with JPMorgan Chase or their ability to work with our firm, but again this may change in the coming months or years. "

They don't know what is happening yet. Nobody's saying that banks will not relocate. They do this all the time. After 2008 hundreds of thousands of financial services jobs were cut from UK banks.

These jobs are very mobile (easy to cut, and to relocate), and the firms are structured like this to allow themselves to expand in good markets and then shrink when the markets go bad.

"The poorest will - yet again - bear the brunt."

You what? We are talking about banking and law jobs potentially being moved elsewhere. These are not roles done by the poorest, in fact they are the very richest in society.

"There will be little to replace the lost revenue from financial services, as we don't actually make or do much else in this country. "

Absolute garbage. The financial and insurance sector contributes 8.0% of the UK's economy. And 3.4% of its jobs.

That's lower than manufacturing (9.7% of the economy, and 8% of the jobs).

"Most items will be significantly more expensive due to the weak pound and less favourable trading terms. "

Absolute bollocks. Why the need to lie? Our major import partners are:

  1. Germany - which uses the euro, against which the pound is considerably stronger now than much of the recent past. Our main import from them is cars. This our largest import category, and Germany is the number one source, although we also import cars from other EU countries. The Germans are NOT going to damage their car industry by imposing tariffs on us.
  1. China - they are not an EU member.

And the idea that there are all these huge tariffs just waiting to be imposed is a fantasy in any case. It's 2016. We have global free trade to a large degree. Our clothes are made in Bangladesh, and already imported to the UK under relationships that won't change. Our food is grown across the globe.

"So no, there is no over-reaction. People are right to be scared. This is real."

Yes, yes there is. We don't even know what relationship we will have with the EU in the future yet. Until there is at least some idea on that it's ridiculous to speculate in this fashion.

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 17:04

From that article:

Foreign financial firms were some of the remain camp’s biggest backers, saying the consequences of voting to leave the EU would make London a less advantageous place to do business. Goldman Sachs spent at least $500,000 helping to fund the remain campaign. Goldman has 6,000 employees in London. It hadn’t said how many it may move out if the vote went for “leave.”

I don't really understand why jobs in international banking and finance should need to be relocated from London at all. Confused

The physical, geographical location of their offices have little or no impact on where and how they do business, surely? Can anyone explain that to me?

larrygrylls · 25/06/2016 17:04

I can believe that people are worried and there are hiring freezes. Redundancies within hours...no, don't believe it, unless, of course, it was a 'good' day for bad news. I.e people who were going to be made redundant Anyway will take it better if due to Brexit.

What if our leaving is delayed? Or we leave ec but stay in single market? Are these companies going t then rehire at great cost?

Name the companies, or I remain sceptical.

FlumptyDumpty · 25/06/2016 17:05

Couldn't agree more Bumble

mamamea · 25/06/2016 17:06

" It's a post I saw on Facebook from the mum of a child who used to go to the same dance classes as my daughter. "

Most of the stuff I see on Facebook is easily disproved bollocks.

FlumptyDumpty · 25/06/2016 17:08

D'Artagnan it's nothing to do with North/south rivalry. It's to do with the SCALE of the losses and the resulting loss of revenue from that and all the business being diverted elsewhere. Not the location of where the losses will come from. How can you not get that?

WeekendAway · 25/06/2016 17:09

Well quite larry there is still an exit strategy to be worked out, both for the UK itself and for the businesses that depend upon us being in the EU. That might take months or years. It's not like flicking a light switch, they still need to wind their operation down or plan a relocation. Confused

larrygrylls · 25/06/2016 17:09

Mamamea,

Great post, well argued and evidenced. By the way, our worst possible deal is wto terms of trade which is a 7.5% tariff. That is taken care of by a relatively small gbp devaluation, most of which happened on Friday.

Why are people fabricating scare stories on here?

Bumblebzz · 25/06/2016 17:12

@WeekendAway - the answer is here:
www.bankofengland.co.uk/pra/Pages/authorisations/passporting/default.aspx

Basically you need a permanent. Are in an EU country to access the whole EU financial market

prettybird · 25/06/2016 17:13

As someone who has been through a mass redundancy because of my company being taken over by another, I have absolutely no issue with people saying that "notice of redundancy" and the start of a consultation process = job losses.

No amount of consultation was going to mitigate the fact that my job had disappeared, given the fact that the majority of my job consisted of selling to the company that had taken us over Hmm

Ditto with all the majority of the other roles: they were either duplicates or no longer existed. So the number of job losses at the end of the consultation was exactly the same as the number that were notified as "at risk" at the start of the consultation.

The fact that I got a good redundancy package was not much of a consolation Sad