Make it make sense!

[Scorpiobabe]

For some time now I have been careful when I buy new or replacement products. I look specifically at where they are manufactured. When we had the first heatwave this year I looked into purchasing (very reluctantly) an air conditioning unit. When I looked there were almost none available to buy, but of those that people had been buying nearly all were manufactured in China, even those with UK brand names.
Given that climate change is causing these heat waves it seems absolutely ridiculous that European countries, many of whom are investing highly in renewable energy, should be outsourcing manufacture to those countries with the worst record when it comes to global-warming emissions.
Putting it simply, those countries that are doing most damage and causing us to overheat are also the countries manufacturing, often with dirty energy, the products we now seek to be cool.

Today I was looking at a small appliance, sold under a French brand, which I found out is manufactured in. you guessed it, China. (Obviously, I haven't bought it.)
As I write this France is experiencing awful wildfires and evacuating hundreds of thousands of residents. The wildfires are attributed to global warming. The three countries that contribute most to global warming are, China, the United States, and India.

I know this is an extremely complex subject, but as mothers surely we all want to secure the best future for the planet our children and grandchildren will live on when our time is done.
So why are we buying products made with dirty energy in countries producing the most pollution attributed to global warming?

Because it's cheap. And people want cheap, and companies want profit.

But countries don’t decide where the products being sold are manufactured. That is down to private companies. Is there a company in the UK making air conditioners? I doubt it. Governments try influence companies to set up in their countries, Ireland has been pretty successful on the pharmaceutical and med device front, but they don’t control those companies.

Like all the solar panels being made in China to put all over the fields here….

The world is fucked because people don’t want to stop ‘progress’ or cheap flights or data centres for all the AI we ‘need.’

But also … air conditioning.
It’s just using more energy to make the situation worse in the long run.

One reason some countries have higher emissions is exactly because we outsource manufacturing. But given how bad air con is for the environment, no leg to stand on really.

It doesn't make sense, it makes money.

A fan uses far less energy - both to make and to run, so you'll lower your own carbon footprint as well as that of wherever it's made by getting one of those instead. You could even buy a vintage one that's more likely to be UK built. Combine it with window & blind management and evaporative cooling, and in the UK that should be sufficient for virtually everyone.

Also, we're not all mothers.

So, do not buy it. Now, you are part of the solution.

As far as air conditioners, there are European makes that manufacture in Europe, though you need to hunt them down. One such manufacturer was Italian with exceptional innovative and energy saving design.

Many European countries have invested heavily in renewable energy. Some European countries get a lot of their energy from renewables: Denmark (94%+), Norway (nearly 100%), Iceland (about 80% lucky with their geothermal sources), Sweden (65%+), Portugal (nearly 83%) and Germany (45%).
France gets much of it's energy from nuclear (a whole different argument) but still 95% of it's energy is clean (if you count nuclear as clean).
So the fact France is literally burning when their contribution to global warming is miniscule is heart-breaking.

What's the Italian company?

Olimpia SPlendid (designed and manufactured in Italy) is a brand that is available in the UK.

China has also invested massively in renewables, so one could argue that by buying from there you're helping fund their transition away from coal.

... conversely, one could ague that boosting China's economy contributes to the Russian attacks on Ukraine since China is a strategic and economic enabler for Russia!

I come from France (le porge in fact), my family uses aircon, and de-industrialisation is often discussed. There are subthreads in your thread: china, manufacturing, aircon, pollution.

• china. It's important to keep our heads cool. They have a bad system (tian-an-men, uyghurs...) but they are also developing and educating their population. Keep hope up on humanity
• manufacturing/de-industrialisation of Europe. It's no joke and not short term. If you need an industrial product, and the factory is in china, you can't just wish it was closer. Bringing it back means retraining the population (i mean when did you consider working as a welder? Would you recommend it to your children?), adapting norms, accepting local pollution and noise (rather that export those), then rebuilding the industry on that foundation.
• aircon. If you do need it, buy a reversible, air source heat pump. And yes it could be Chinese (i think it won't be uyghur slave labour, they take training to make). Heat pumps also help low energy heating in mid season, and you can supplement your existing heating plus get cooling from one install. There's an ugly fan unit outside, but we're not talking about heating your whole home (I don't recommend in the uk)

You may not need a heat pump: my wild garden is 5 degrees cooler than the street (it drives the neighbours mad though 😆). Opening the cellar door also works here.

• pollution. Heat pumps use electricity which may generate co2. Choose when you run them: middle of the day in summer, night time in winter, when electricity is abundant and companies struggle consuming all that is produced. They also contain chemicals. Up to you whether pumping heat using electrical power outweigh the chemical cost.

No reason why a heat pump can't work for whole-house heating in the UK, if you pick the right system. They're very common in Norway now.

The heat pumps that work in Norway are ground-source heat pumps. That's easier in a new build - place pipes under the garden and a network of underfloor heating at build time. To retrofit your house - dig a lot of piping into your garden, probably replace your radiators - is a lot more work.

It's a good solution in Scandinavian isolated homes (low population = large gardens!), though they also use communal heating in cities, with heat delivered into your home.

So (unless you are among the lucky few who new-build somewhere there is space, or can retrofit), we're back to air-source HP. Air source works best when the outside air is not too cold, since we pump residual heat out of it. The colder the weather, the worse the heat pump, which means it turns into the same waste as plain electric heating at precisely the time when electricity is at a premium (or worse, fails and you're very cold). But it works really well in half-season - Oct-Nov, and Apr-May, and remains a saving in mild weather. It just can't be your only source of heating (in most of the UK), which makes the subsidy rather useless as they are for replacing all your heating.

But - to get back on topic - a reversible, air-source HP is not very expensive, and strategically positioned, it will give you cool comfort in summer when electricity is financially and environmentally cheap, and additional heat in autumn/spring, reducing your gas consumption without additional cost. That would be my choice, OP.

China only makes and sells what the west is buying. I think it’s spectacularly shitty that people on high horses in the west, especially the UK where the industrial revolution literally originated, are being shitty about China making this stuff when it’s because the UK has outsourced our manufacturing (and therefore OUR pollution). Think about it for more than 5 seconds OP and stop blaming China for being dirty when it’s been the west’s dumping ground for emission-causing industries for decades now. Those stats that say the UK barely makes a dent in emissions are laughable in the context that the UK’s appalling historical emissions in the first place started climate change and the UK’s voracious appetite for cheap shit they don’t have the skills to make means those emissions in China, Bangladesh and India are partly the responsibility of the UK. Happy to help.

Thank you for your thoughtful and perceptive responses.
You are absolutely spot on about the implicit sub threads; there are several others that concern me aside from those you mention.
I don’t fare well when the temperature rises to the high 20s let alone the mid 30s we experienced here recently, but at least I can escape into the garden.
I was researching the air conditioner for my father who is 95 and house bound, and found out about using fans as exhausts, using curtains to keep the sun out and so forth.
What shocked me was how rapidly all UK stock had disappeared and the lack of choice that had been available to consumers.
I will research the heat pumps you mentioned. The air version sounds very interesting and doable. 🙏🏼

You are absolutely right: China makes and sells what the West is buying.
The Industrial Revolution did start in the UK (England, in fact) but quickly spread to other Western countries.
Looking at total emissions some figures bring everything into perspective. Total historical CO₂ emissions from 1750 to the present day of a few of the big players: USA 24%, Germany 5.2%, France 2.2%, UK (not including historical territories) 3.1%, Russia and the Soviet Union 6.7%, China 15%.
The per capita figures are even more startling.

My post doesn’t seek to attribute blame. I think countries should take responsibility for their own emissions. But as a consumer I’m fed up of buying sub-standard products and being hoodwinked about where products are manufactured. Much of the poor quality is to do with modern manufacturing and not to do with country or origin, btw.

But we are where we are, and ranting about who’s to blame doesn’t solve any of the very serious issues the world now faces.
Your comment about people’s “voracious appetite for cheap shit” is, imo, spot on. Consumerism is probably one of the worlds’ greatest challenges because until people curb this behaviour and until manufacturers stop making stuff that breaks after a few uses, nothing will change.

Steady-up there, Dobbin. I want to dismount now!

You are moving the goalposts of the thread massively there. Is this about carbon or geopolitics ?

Airconditioning is a strange one really, and I think you can separate it from the usual China made stuff. And if you buy a Chinese made air con, you are actually buying it ethically in terms of carbon.

I say that because the market for air conditioners in China is likely the biggest in the world. Sample data link here :

Air Conditioning Usage By Country 2024 - USA Data Hub

So air conditioners are made in China because they are used in China. In fact, in much of China air con is pretty much essential for modern life. They are everywhere. All those photos you see of the massive high rise estates - near all of those apartments have at least one split unit. Normally one for each bedroom. And that is for most of China. Because in the summer near everywhere gets really hot.

And that size of market gives economy of scale in manufacturing. And with that comes efficiency. The supply chains are in China. From steel to wires to refrigerant.

If you were to takes every component and do a carbon contribution for made in China, installed in the UK, it would most likely be, and I would bet on it without a doubt, come in at less total carbon if a UK factory was set up to make UK volumes.

Yes, it is a pain that most western retailers etc outsource to China for cost (and supply chain), and do not offer a local made option (at higher cost), but there is not a lot can be done with that really if the market is not big enough to support it.

The US is another option for aircon. But voltage issues maybe, and Trump is pro coal and anti green.

Japan of course. Likes of Mitsubishi, but made in China. Because of above reasons, economy of scale.

So I think for air cons, China is ethically fine wrt carbon.

And yes, China is not even at peak carbon, the government target for that is not even till the early 2030s. But for aircon I think you are fine.

Italy made too is fine.

Air con units and heatpumps are the same thing. A heat pump is just an AC unit working in reverse. It's just a valve and some control gear. Yes there will be some efficiency differences if it is designed to work one way or another, but I don't think it is much.

UK stocks running out is to be expected really. Everywhere is hotter, or hot for longer.

Fair (very fair) point.
I guess similar to my thinking that we should limit unnecessary flights - but then why should people in India / China / Africa not be able to fly like people in the West have for 30+ years….
’We’ have caused the mess and are looking to others to blame / solve it.
But I do stand by the ridiculousness of solar ‘farms’ in the UK.
I really don’t know how to help. Realistically, we , as a population, lack the real will to change anything, habits, consumption, transportation- anything meaningful.