Am I in a toxic relationship with family?

[CalmTheFireAndWarmTheIce]

Tl:dr, I’m worried I’ve fallen in to the pitfalls of an abusive/manipulative/controlling family pattern that is multi generational. AiBU? If not how do I break this?

My dear departed Grandmother would be 100+ if she were still alive, she had one aunt (whose husband died during the war) and one daughter with him, quite a bit younger than my Grandma, but obviously her cousin, who was conceived at some point during the war and is still alive (married to a sweet old man, has 3 kids and numerous grandkids).

Apparently everyone knew that this cousin was just unpleasant- she’s contrary- negative- critical… even her own mother knew. So my Great Aunt asked on her death bed virtually, for my Grandma to please never turn her away or turn her back on her; and because of the close bond my Grandma had with her Aunt, and the loyalty and love she had for her, she didn’t. She kept up the family occasions and communications with the cousin and her family (even though this cousin was/is still deeply unpleasant), until the day she (my grandmother) died.

It was then expected my Dad and my Uncle would pick up where she left off. They didn’t. Instead the task was given to me- and out of sheer loyalty to my grandmother I drove all around buying and wrapping birthday/Christmas gifts etc. for this unpleasant woman’s family- just as my deceased grandma had done before me.

But you see on MY grandmothers deathbed she’d asked me to do the same- this time for my uncle- so when he needed or wanted the help I was there (he never married or had children).

So I guess I followed in my grandmother’s footsteps- but again we were so close- how could I not? Even when he was repeatedly rude and verbally abusive toward me.

He died. I was devastated but banned from the funeral for lots of family reasons.

My attention then turned to making sure my Dad was ok, even though he’s been mentally abusive towards me for as long as I can remember- verbally too, and still is. But what would my beloved Grandmother think if I turned my back on him?

I just don’t know if I can… but sometimes he’s so horrible it makes me literally sick.

Do I cut and run and hope my deceased grandparents would understand? Or do I keep going and hoping he will change for another 3 decades?

He was particularly brutal this weekend and it’s just left me wondering what to do as I haven’t been able to get out of bed because of sadness.

I’ve had lots of therapy, and they’re all of same opinion, but AIBU?

Any advice?

I’m sorry, as it is obviousyou loved your grandmother, but no one has the right to impose this burden on another person. Several obnoxious people have been allowed to make other people miserable by their mothers’ enabling their awful behaviour, it is time to put a line under it. If you have children would you want them to have this life? You have no duty to your father, leave him to his own devices.

You have a serious case of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) towards your family.

You need to snap out of this and start putting yourself first. You do not owe people who are detrimental to your mental health and abusive, anything.

You need to stop emulating your Grandmother who is no longer here, stop running around after people who have no respect for you and learn some assertiveness skills and appropriate boundaries.

Start saying no. Dysfunctional people don't like being told no and will try to manipulate you into backing down. Healthy people accept no and respect your boundaries.

Keep away from dysfunctional people.

Unbelievable that you genuinely believe your dead grandmother wants you to be abused in case the abuser might be upset!

Do you think that maybe she herself was caught up in a lifetime of setting herself on fire to keep others warm- thereby perpetuating a system where the worst behaved get treated the best?

Don’t you think she would be proud of you for figuring out the toxic dynamic and putting an end to it?

And the really important thing to know is that those people you’re helping, they don’t like you any better for it, they despise those who bend over for them. All those people (including your father) despise everyone who put up with their nonsense so much more than those who don’t.

Your father cannot be helped, only managed. Except he’s a badly socialised adult who should be able to manage himself.

Thank you for your messages.

i guess duty and obligation (probably through a cloak of loyalty) pushed me to do the “right thing”… but my Dad was so horrible on the phone this weekend and went after my husband (verbally), and I suddenly thought why am I doing this still?

the what we called “integrity tests” started when I was about 3- he’d give me more “pocket money” than the amount I was allowed- if I didn’t come back and tell him there was 50pence extra that was me deemed a liar/thief. I was literally 3 when I first remember it happening, and was if anything, too much of a rule follower.

he still does the same now (albeit in different ways), and I just got used to it?

currently his criticism is why I don’t see him that often, but last year he visited me in hospital/ care facilities a few times- where I spend a lot of time sadly- when I had pneumonia, I was hooked up to fluids, steroids and antibiotics, and had breathing apparatus on. He told me my legs were getting fat and asked why my nails weren’t painted. Mum and husband had thought I was going to die.

then the next thing I’ll get a very generous gift from him…

it’s like he’s a cat playing with a mouse or something… he likes provoking me because he likes arguing. With anyone. Particularly me though. I’m not sure why?

i hate to think what my Mum went through before I was able to help her get out. I’m an only child and I just feel I’ve done my best now.

then I have that nagging feeling of what about his parents? My dear grandmother and grandfather (who my Mum still recognises as such) if I cut ties- would they hate me even though they’ve long passed? Am I being disloyal? It breaks my heart and soul to pieces

It's up to you if you want to continue to do this or not. Doing on behalf of someone who is dead seems crazy. Do you honestly think they would want you to suffer? If your Grandmother was meant to be such a nice person why would she want you to do something that was so unpleasant. If so then she wasn't the kind matriarch that you think she was.

There seems to be a lot of guilt and expectations in your family.

You need to decide what you want to do for yourself and stop worrying about what other people think of you. You sound like a kind person but I'm sure there are more deserving people that you can be nice to.

I know that you’re right, but do you know that feeling where even though you know something to be true you don’t listen?

there’s a song lyric that says “your mind is playing tricks on you my dear”. And I feel that in my bones.

my grandma and granda (his parents) would’ve come down on him so hard- and his deceased brother for that matter- for the way my mum and I were/are treated by them.

I could talk to my grandma about intimacy into my 20s with my (now) hubby, I visited her every day and plucked her eyebrows and got her hairdresser in hospital (she’d already told me if I could manage it to try)- my Granda told me the most of anyone in the family about his time in the war- and my grandma gifted me some jewellery a good decade before she passed (I think on reflection she wanted to ensure it went to me because my Granda did the same with his war medals). Now my dad wants them. I don’t think that’s right or fair? AIBU?

its all I have to remember them by (physically, the time spent with them will never fade)… I just, AIBU to think my own dad could cut me some slack?

all I want is the same kindness you’d afford a stranger. I don’t want to be told I’m fat when I’m hallucinating because my oxygen is so low… or told he trusts his dog more than me to make decisions on his life should the time come…

that’s just a couple of examples but every time I think I can do what I need to do and stop engaging, I imagine my wonderful grandparents and fall flat and just take the name calling again… then my mum is upset, my husband is upset and angry, and I’m trying to downplay how devastated I am so that they don’t worry so much.

what do I do?

what do I do?

Start putting yourself first.

This isn’t remotely sarcastic, and I very much appreciate the response, but how do people do that?
it’s a genuine question.
i just don’t know how to get there without feeling like a terrible person- thus negating the point entirely yano?
I’ve done allllll the therapy- practiced alllll the techniques; but still when something/someone comes knocking at my door for help or support or forgiveness (physically or metaphorically), I’m in 100%. Even when it hurts me I try to do my crying in private.
i know this isn’t healthy btw

You need to read up on assertiveness and how to maintain healthy boundaries. Assertiveness grows like a muscle the more you use it.

It can feel like being a rabbit in headlights at first but you can learn a few stock phrases to gain time.

"Can you help me with some errands tomorrow?"

"I'm not sure what I'm doing, I'll let you know." Repeat as necessary.

You're going to have to learn to deal with difficult emotions. One thing that helps is knowing that you're not responsible for how others feel.

You protect yourself by keeping away from unhealthy people and relationships. They're not more important than you.

It might also help to do some work on your self esteem.

I agree, I just can’t seem to actually do it. Over the course of 15-20 years I’ve had numerous rounds of what I now just label “therapy”- I’ve done CBT, counselling, group work, DBT, CAT therapy, probably others I forget now… tried every medication under the sun (some of which according to hubby and mum left me virtually mute and absent even when in the room) I KNOW they aren’t gaslighting me on this because I can’t remember much of it either… but I was trying to do what doctors advised and be the good little girl I’m supposed to be..,
but I’m not a little girl am I? I
im an adult and I know I need to catch a grip.
i have no self esteem. My body ballooned in weight during one period of illness- and despite me, my hubby, and mother telling them I wasn’t secretly eating or drinking they didn’t believe me. It’s awful being treated like an outcast because you’re heavier; but I was every day until my saviour nurse encouraged the correct medication and I was dropping so much weight a night… so unjust. I’ve written to several health authorities to highlight my concerns on this issue.
anyway my current therapist (that I have to pay for) tells me all the time I apologise too much, so does mum and hubby. I just feel like it’s difficult to strike the balance between assertiveness and aggression… I really am trying though.
does anybody else feel this? I’m trying to stay calm and composed but sometimes I feel people deserve a telling of truth, but I know that’s likely unhelpful…

What work have you done regarding self esteem, boundaries and assertiveness? Have you read any books or completed workbooks?

I've been in a somewhat similar situation and a couple of things finally broke the spell:

1. Finding my anger
2. Really really visualising it happening to someone else so you can see how VERY WRONG it is

Best of luck OP. You've been brainwashed to overlook the injustice. I'm furious for you.

I had a similar relationship with my Dad, who bullied and belittled me, and commented on my weight and appearance throughout my childhood and teenage years. It only got better when I got angry and spoke up to him. I distanced myself from him and only saw him occasionally after that.

When he became elderly and unwell, I stepped up to help him but set strict boundaries and when he crossed them the first time, I put on my coat and left, having told him that I was not prepared to be spoken to like that. He actually apologised and begged me to go back, which I did on the understanding that he would behave himself!

I walked away from my father's dysfunctional toxic family over 30 years ago. Occasionally I wonder in a fleeting thought what became of them all but that's about it. A fleeting thought. Nothing else. There's no power over me. It is so inconsequential to me now that they might as well not even exist and to be fair most of them probably don't anymore. Last time I visited my father's grave which he shared with his aunt and my paternal grandmother it looked like it had not been visited for decades.

I hate to say it but if you've done all the therapy and nothing has ever made any difference in changing this dynamic then I think you need to at least explore the possibility that there might be a part of you that is choosing to stay stuck in this toxic trap, and I don't mean a conscious active choice. Sometimes we choose to stay stuck without realising it. There may be an element of subtle denial you are not yet able to recognise. A bit like how addicts sometimes choose to continue surrounding themselves with all the same people and places that keep them addicted because the thought of cutting ties completely would mean having an emptiness they'd have to find another way to fill. What would you do with yourself if you weren't constantly rallying around after everyone else?

Sometimes we ourselves are the reason we can't walk away. Sometimes there's a need in ourselves that keeps us stuck. A need for approval that we can never get because these people are never going to give it. A need for validation that we can never get. A need to be needed. Whatever it is, look deeper inside yourself because there will be something within you that is causing you to stay stuck and it won't just be a misguided sense of loyalty. There will be something else going on in your psyche that is keeping you stuck in this cycle. It's not just about the other people who are part of the cycle. We ourselves also play a role in how our lives pan out.

If you are worried your grandmother is going to be disappointed in you in some kind of spiritual sense then by the same logic you would also need to give your uncle the same power to still hold disappointment over you too.