Page 4 | Single father homeless

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 21:45

Habitual residence applies to everyone; this is a quote from CAB
You have to show you’re habitually resident even if you’re a British Citizen.
this Shelters advice re habitual residence.
People who are not subject to immigration control must be habitually resident to be eligible for assistance.
This includes British and Irish nationals and Commonwealth citizens with a right of abode.

Shelter Legal England - Habitual residence test for homelessness assistance - Shelter England

British and Irish nationals as well as some people from abroad are only eligible for assistance if they are habitually resident in the Common Travel Area.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/homelessness_applications/eligibility_for_homeless_assistance/habitual_residence_test_for_homelessness_assistance#reference-3

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:45

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:35

God how horrible. You trust government officials to know what they are talking about when they advise you of this. That probably helped your case to stay as well- the fact you acted on the consulates advice.

Show quote history

Nope, they wouldn't even listen to that part. They kept saying in their reports that I'd turned up in the UK without a plan. And when I pushed for my lawyer to explain to them that I had acted on consulate advice (who had even told social services I was coming back before I left!), suddenly their assessments wrote that I'd been deported.

It was astonishing to read the impartial psychiatrist's report where he wrote great things about me and then at the end wrote 'the only odd thing about cardigans is that she seems too calm for someone who was recently deported and having no control over what's happened to her although that may just be her underlying personality'. I didn't even know they'd lied to him that I had been deported until that point! Proper trying to cover their own backs.

TheShellBeach · 03/09/2023 21:49

I can't understand why a mother would let a man take her child halfway round the world with no accommodation at the end of the journey.

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 21:49

BTW, the legislation specifically says that if a British Citizen is deported, expelled or removed from another country and has to return to the UK, they are automatically habitually resident and don't have to prove they are.

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:51

TheShellBeach · 03/09/2023 21:49

I can't understand why a mother would let a man take her child halfway round the world with no accommodation at the end of the journey.

Maybe he's lied to her? Also lots of foreigners get told that if you rock up in the UK with nowhere to go, you get housed.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:53

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:45

Nope, they wouldn't even listen to that part. They kept saying in their reports that I'd turned up in the UK without a plan. And when I pushed for my lawyer to explain to them that I had acted on consulate advice (who had even told social services I was coming back before I left!), suddenly their assessments wrote that I'd been deported.

It was astonishing to read the impartial psychiatrist's report where he wrote great things about me and then at the end wrote 'the only odd thing about cardigans is that she seems too calm for someone who was recently deported and having no control over what's happened to her although that may just be her underlying personality'. I didn't even know they'd lied to him that I had been deported until that point! Proper trying to cover their own backs.

Show quote history

I meant it no doubt helped the lawyer argue for you, as in with the courts to lift the child protection order. You were wrongly advised by the consulate you’d get assistance so you didn’t knowingly make yourself and baby homeless- as in arrive with no plan. It obviously did help a bit as they revised their assessments…but in a way to save face. They’d rather say you were deported here than admit they (the government) gave bad advice.

I have a relative who acted on bad advice from the Home Office and inadvertently did an illegal entry. It was flagged when they applied for a longer term visa from within the U.K. The fact they’d saved the documentation showing they’d been advised by the Home Office that it was perfectly legal to come to the U.K. in the way that they had helped their case in the court system as the illegal entry charges were dropped and never proceeded to court.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 22:00

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 21:49

BTW, the legislation specifically says that if a British Citizen is deported, expelled or removed from another country and has to return to the UK, they are automatically habitually resident and don't have to prove they are.

Yeah, but can’t really advise the OP’s mate to do anything that would get Vietnam to do that to him!

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 22:19

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 22:00

Yeah, but can’t really advise the OP’s mate to do anything that would get Vietnam to do that to him!

Show quote history

And also they wouldn't deport the child who would be Vietnamese.

I knew a girl in another country who was picked up for being illegal and even though her daughter was British and nothing to do with that country (also illegal there), they put her in foster care in that country and locked the mum up in a deportation centre.

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 22:26

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:53

I meant it no doubt helped the lawyer argue for you, as in with the courts to lift the child protection order. You were wrongly advised by the consulate you’d get assistance so you didn’t knowingly make yourself and baby homeless- as in arrive with no plan. It obviously did help a bit as they revised their assessments…but in a way to save face. They’d rather say you were deported here than admit they (the government) gave bad advice.

I have a relative who acted on bad advice from the Home Office and inadvertently did an illegal entry. It was flagged when they applied for a longer term visa from within the U.K. The fact they’d saved the documentation showing they’d been advised by the Home Office that it was perfectly legal to come to the U.K. in the way that they had helped their case in the court system as the illegal entry charges were dropped and never proceeded to court.

Show quote history

Oh yes, I think that helped. Luckily I had really good judges who saw what a s* show the social services were putting on and told them to cut out their ridiculous opinions of me. They were just determined to paint me as a feckless chaotic idiot with severe mental health issues, to cover up their own lack of original concern. I spent hours going through their court reports, emailing my lawyer a correction for every lie they wrote about me. I never really believed in evil until that experience.

Your poor relative, I'm so glad they saved that document. But also, kind of a blessing they were given the wrong info as they may not have gotten their visa so easily. How do you inadvertently illegally enter the UK out of curiosity? All I can think of is by boat, lorry or parachute, but they're not very inadvertent!

CallistaFlockfart · 03/09/2023 22:34

THisbackwithavengeance · 03/09/2023 12:41

"He isn't fleeing a war, persecution, torture, imprisonment....."

Neither have 99% of the migrants arriving on boats.

Where do get that from? The vast majority have their claims approved.

loislovesstewie · 04/09/2023 07:08

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 22:00

Yeah, but can’t really advise the OP’s mate to do anything that would get Vietnam to do that to him!

Show quote history

I wasn't advocating that he did that! I was explaining the law,fully.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 04/09/2023 07:09

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 22:26

Oh yes, I think that helped. Luckily I had really good judges who saw what a s* show the social services were putting on and told them to cut out their ridiculous opinions of me. They were just determined to paint me as a feckless chaotic idiot with severe mental health issues, to cover up their own lack of original concern. I spent hours going through their court reports, emailing my lawyer a correction for every lie they wrote about me. I never really believed in evil until that experience.

Your poor relative, I'm so glad they saved that document. But also, kind of a blessing they were given the wrong info as they may not have gotten their visa so easily. How do you inadvertently illegally enter the UK out of curiosity? All I can think of is by boat, lorry or parachute, but they're not very inadvertent!

Show quote history

They wanted to accompany their DC (DC are British Citizens born Abroad- this is foreign expartner to British expat) to the U.K. for education at international boarding school and live by the school during the school year (9mos) which is longer than the tourist visa (6mos). The divorce included financial settlement for education with provisio from ex that they’d be educated in England. Relative didn’t want to be away from DC that long so wanted to just rent near by so they could enroll them as day students.

This relative is a by the book relative. The Home Office said it’s fine, just show up with the school admission letters and you can stay in rented accommodation by the school, no need for a special visa. They did this. Liked the U.K. and the second year they brought their DC back, applied for family visa as parent of British children estranged from British father to stay longer (2.5yrs in U.K.) to build a year round life here (plus I think they decided the family support they got from wider family already here was pretty good).

They were truthful about the 9mos they’d just been here and that is what got flagged up as an illegal entry as technically they’d only had the tourist stamp and were not a tourist. If you ever break U.K. immigration law that is an automatic fail or reason to reject your visa application and then go to court for ten year ban on future visa applications or even coming as a tourist which is what the court proceedings were…to ban my relative. Luckily, they’d done a chat with the Home Office from their Home Country for this advice before coming and not only saved and printed screen shots but had the transcript emailed to them.

They had same solicitor my whole family use for their family visa and when he sent the evidence, the court proceedings were dropped and they got their family visa.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 04/09/2023 07:10

loislovesstewie · 04/09/2023 07:08

I wasn't advocating that he did that! I was explaining the law,fully.

Show quote history

I know 😂. I was more remarking that the law you posted had crossed my mind. Sorry if I gave impression you were.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 04/09/2023 07:18

*not 9 mos, 11 mos, it’s too early for this counting fingers. And edit function seems to have disappeared.

NoMor · 04/09/2023 07:41

So this man travels to a poor country, gets a vulnerable (much younger?) woman pregnant then abandons her and takes the child. He then takes this child away from her mother, culture and everything she's ever known to arrive homeless, jobless and penniless in another country.

I'd think he is at a massive risk of having the child taken away. I don't think it would be too hard to convince a judge that he is incapable of making decisions with his child's best interests in mind, is irresponsible and is possibly a sexual predator.

He needs to get a job either where he is now or have one lined up for his return. Does he have any job prospects? How is he supporting himself at the moment?

Original poster

Brumbies · 04/09/2023 07:46

Customs · 03/09/2023 20:51

OP i was in a similar situation as a child. My parents had the right to enter and live in the UK, so they did. The flat they had organised fell through so we went to the council for help. They housed us in a B&B while investigating our case. The outcome was that we were kicked out of the B&B and told to find our own housing as we were deemed to have made ourselves intentionally homeless by leaving our accommodation in another country to come here. We couldn't be kicked out of the country but the council had no obligation to help us despite me being a child.

Thank you, I can see the whole situation is fraught with problems.

I don't know what to believe can happens as people have such different opinions.

As for it not being 'a real situation" I wish it wasn't but sadly it's very true.

OP posts:

Customs · 04/09/2023 09:17

OP in our case we presented ourselves to the council within a day or two of having arrived in the UK. We had a couple of days booked in a hotel while waiting to receive the keys to our flat in a posh area in central London, which we found out on the day we arrived in the UK we couldn't get anymore (because we didn't meet the estate agent's reasonable condition that to get the flat we had to have a job or a guarantor, something they hadn't explained to my parents but assumed my parents would know). My parents also didn't have a job lined up and no savings, they assumed they would walk into a high earning job despite my mother having no qualifications or work experience, and my father having no qualifications and only doing minimum wage jobs.

The council investigated why we were homeless and I think even wrote to our former landlord. As it became clear we voluntarily left our accommodation, they said they didn't need to house us. My parents argued that we weren't intentionally homeless as our UK flat fell through, however, we didn't meet the conditions the estate agents had set us for us to have the flat (have an income or a guarantor) therefore it was on us. While we were in the B&B I think they gave us £20 a week for food. It was nowhere near enough and we skipped meals.

We asked the council what we should do when they kicked us out. They said they could put us in a hostel, where we could share bunk beds with others in a large room. So I had the idea that we register as homeless again with another council and start the process again, and that's what we did. The B&B they put us in first time was bad, the second time was worse.

OP this happened to me over 25 years ago and the system has only become more strained. It was a traumatising time for me and I still cry about it sometimes. I was bullied at school for my situation as it became clear we were very poor. It had a long lasting impact on us and it took my parents 15 years to get out of the financial hole. I have become very anxious with money, can't spend it even though I have more than enough because I'm always saving for a very rainy day. I struggle to buy things that others see as necessity eg I spend about £30 a year on clothes and shoes for me. When I paid off my mortgage I cried at the bank and the staff cried with me too.

I would ask your friend to think about whether this would still be better than staying in Vietnam.

I don't blame the government / council at all, it was my parents stupidity that got us into this mess.

TheSquareMile · 04/09/2023 09:36

Brumbies · 03/09/2023 08:14

Hoping someone can advise me.

Single father of 6 year old daughter, lives overseas. Now split from partner and has full custody. Father and daughter both hold British passports. Mother doesn't and accepts the situation.

He wants to come back to the UK with his girl as he has distant family here and was born and raised here. but doesn't have family he could stay with, he has no money either (another long story).

Can anyone advise what his options are? Apart from getting here in a dinghy from France! If he presents himself to council offices would they be obliged to house him and his girl?

Thanks anyone who can help.

Has he sought the advice of the Embassy/Consulate in Vietnam? That would be a start, surely?

https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-hanoi

British Embassy Hanoi - GOV.UK

The British Embassy in Hanoi maintains and develops relations between the UK and Vietnam.

https://www.gov.uk/world/organisations/british-embassy-hanoi

Original poster

Brumbies · 04/09/2023 18:26

NoMor · 04/09/2023 07:41

So this man travels to a poor country, gets a vulnerable (much younger?) woman pregnant then abandons her and takes the child. He then takes this child away from her mother, culture and everything she's ever known to arrive homeless, jobless and penniless in another country.

I'd think he is at a massive risk of having the child taken away. I don't think it would be too hard to convince a judge that he is incapable of making decisions with his child's best interests in mind, is irresponsible and is possibly a sexual predator.

He needs to get a job either where he is now or have one lined up for his return. Does he have any job prospects? How is he supporting himself at the moment?

Judgemental - you should be ashamed of yourself.

Don't you know it takes two?

OP posts:

Icycloud · 04/09/2023 18:31

the whole idea is nuts

Icycloud · 04/09/2023 18:35

@NoMor dont listen to the OP be as judgemental as you want this idea is nuts

NoMor · 04/09/2023 20:29

Brumbies · 04/09/2023 18:26

Judgemental - you should be ashamed of yourself.

Don't you know it takes two?

Show quote history

I am telling you how it could look or be framed by social services so he is aware of the potential risk. I'm not ashamed of that. He believes he is doing the right thing for his child, social services may or may not agree. He needs to show that he had a plan in place at the very least. You shouldn't give him false hope, THAT would be shameful.

If he can't work where he is, could he stay with family in the UK for a short time? Secure employment then look for somewhere to live.

VisitorfromAbroad2 · 24/10/2023 19:01

The father must have some money or he will take out a loan to fly with his child to UK

I understand the pull of prospects of a better life in UK

I assume if father eventually gets a job, that he will be sending a proportion of his wages back to the mother & the wider family ?

I have been to Vietnam, suggest reading about the history of this country & the people