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Ethical dilemmas
Original poster

Single father homeless

98 replies

Brumbies · 03/09/2023 08:14

Hoping someone can advise me.

Single father of 6 year old daughter, lives overseas. Now split from partner and has full custody. Father and daughter both hold British passports. Mother doesn't and accepts the situation.

He wants to come back to the UK with his girl as he has distant family here and was born and raised here. but doesn't have family he could stay with, he has no money either (another long story).

Can anyone advise what his options are? Apart from getting here in a dinghy from France! If he presents himself to council offices would they be obliged to house him and his girl?

Thanks anyone who can help.

OP posts:
Spidey66 · 03/09/2023 18:42

I doubt that he will get housed straight away when the housing waiting list is as long as it is. I'm sure there's something about "ordinary residence" which says if you've been living out of the UK for a certain period, you don't get benefits, housing etc straight away.

I've goy both a UK passport (born and bred here) and an Irish one (my parents were Irish). I can't pitch up in either Ireland or the EU demanding their benefits, because, you know, I've not paid into their system. Live and work there, yes, but I need to be able to support myself.

Spidey66 · 03/09/2023 18:44

Oh and I agree this a thinly veined thread to attack refugees. Why would you risk your life in a dinghy for practically no money and a shit hole b&b unless your life was at risk?

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 18:45

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 18:26

Hmm Nonsense.

Show quote history

Not nonsense- me and my child were put in a foster home and she on a child protection order for coming here without a home to go to. They threatened to take her away from me.

Throwncrumbs · 03/09/2023 18:51

Brumbies · 03/09/2023 08:59

It's complicated - the mother is happy for her daughter to be educated in UK she's from poor region Vietnam.

He is unemployed.

So he’s got a vulnerable Vietnamese woman pregnant and wants to bring the child to the UK with no home and no money…. He sounds awful, poor child. Why doesn’t work, save money then come back with at least some prospects!

Throwncrumbs · 03/09/2023 18:58

DivorcingEU · 03/09/2023 09:09

  1. What does "mother accepts the situation" mean in reality? She agrees to him and her daughter moving to the U.K.? If so, he'll need that in writing to protect him from charges of child kidnapping.
  1. Does the mother have no contact with the daughter? It's a hugely traumatic thing to be living apart from your mother, never mind abroad.
  1. He has no money. I'm not sure if he's entitled to benefits upon arrival. I know that Brits who return from living abroad are technically not able to use the NHS for free for the first 6 months. Worth checking.
  1. Can he work and save up a bit that could be used to provide him and his daughter some accommodation when they arrive?
  1. When was the last time he was in the UK? If it's been a while (assuming so as no family close enough to help him out) then does he know just how much it's changed? He's not moving back to the place he left...
  1. What is his reason for leaving his child's home? Is her future there so appalling? What is it in living in the UK that would be worth separating her from her mother, friends, and only place she's known? I've done international moves, so I'm asking this from a place of both understanding what's involved and understanding that it isn't always negative..but also can be extremely hard.
  1. Does he think that his life will improve by moving to the UK? If so, how? Does he have better job opportunities, if so, in what sectors and will his work experience be viewed as relevant here, or will he be starting from the bottom of the ladder? He really needs to be thinking about this clearly, very clearly.

Wants to come here to sponge off a system he’s never paid into…what a prince!

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 19:05

Noalcohol · 03/09/2023 08:56

They can travel to the UK with their passports. The council would be obliged to house his child. I advise he pick a council with less demanding housing issues. He would have to say the mother of the child is estranged.

He might not be classed as habitually resident immediately on his return. If that is the case then he would not be offered temporary accommodation,as well as that if he has accommodation in another country he may well not be homeless.

TheSquareMile · 03/09/2023 19:07

How old is this guy, by the way?

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 19:18

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 18:45

Not nonsense- me and my child were put in a foster home and she on a child protection order for coming here without a home to go to. They threatened to take her away from me.

Show quote history

So you and your child were housed, together, and although they muttered about removing her in the hope that you would sort out housing, they didn't do it. Because that would be an even bigger headache for them.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 19:31

Noalcohol · 03/09/2023 08:56

They can travel to the UK with their passports. The council would be obliged to house his child. I advise he pick a council with less demanding housing issues. He would have to say the mother of the child is estranged.

Not the case.
He will be told to get on the next flight back to where he came from with his DD or his DD will be taken into care by social services and he will be homeless on the streets.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 19:34

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 18:45

Not nonsense- me and my child were put in a foster home and she on a child protection order for coming here without a home to go to. They threatened to take her away from me.

Show quote history

Women with children get different treatment from men with children.

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 19:42

If he has a UK passport he has the right to enter the country, he is not subject to immigration control. He may well not be habitually resident; if he is street homeless ,i.e has nowhere to stay in safety,anywhere in the world, then a referral to social services would be made. Social services would then decide what action they would take and they could,if they chose, fund his stay in a hotel until his situation changes. I worked as a homeless officer and did deal with people who were holders of UK passports but were not habitually resident having returned to the UK after living abroad.
He can't be told to return to another country as he has the right to enter the UK.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 19:49

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 19:34

Women with children get different treatment from men with children.

Show quote history

There is not a snowball's chance they would remove a child from a parent as you are suggesting. The cost of a child in care is more than the cost of housing parent and child together.

Rightly or wrongly, if you have a child you will be housed. It might be horrible housing, it might be a B&B at first, but you will get a roof over your head.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 20:21

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 19:49

There is not a snowball's chance they would remove a child from a parent as you are suggesting. The cost of a child in care is more than the cost of housing parent and child together.

Rightly or wrongly, if you have a child you will be housed. It might be horrible housing, it might be a B&B at first, but you will get a roof over your head.

Show quote history

They can obtain a court order and do so. As cosycardigans posted- they threatened to take her child- it wasn’t an idle threat and the crisis is much worse now.

Coming to the U.K., taking the child from their mother with no money, no place to go would be classed as a type of child neglect/abuse. They might forgive a mother, as women are viewed as vulnerable and often are fleeing DV. He will be heavily questioned as to why he did not leave the child with their by all accounts loving and capable mother at home.

It’s not just about cost either, it’s about space. They have more space in foster homes right now than they do emergency accommodation for families.

Original poster
Brumbies · 03/09/2023 20:39

loislovesstewie · 03/09/2023 19:42

If he has a UK passport he has the right to enter the country, he is not subject to immigration control. He may well not be habitually resident; if he is street homeless ,i.e has nowhere to stay in safety,anywhere in the world, then a referral to social services would be made. Social services would then decide what action they would take and they could,if they chose, fund his stay in a hotel until his situation changes. I worked as a homeless officer and did deal with people who were holders of UK passports but were not habitually resident having returned to the UK after living abroad.
He can't be told to return to another country as he has the right to enter the UK.

Edited

Thank you this is useful info

OP posts:
Customs · 03/09/2023 20:51

OP i was in a similar situation as a child. My parents had the right to enter and live in the UK, so they did. The flat they had organised fell through so we went to the council for help. They housed us in a B&B while investigating our case. The outcome was that we were kicked out of the B&B and told to find our own housing as we were deemed to have made ourselves intentionally homeless by leaving our accommodation in another country to come here. We couldn't be kicked out of the country but the council had no obligation to help us despite me being a child.

Spidey66 · 03/09/2023 21:00

Customs · 03/09/2023 20:51

OP i was in a similar situation as a child. My parents had the right to enter and live in the UK, so they did. The flat they had organised fell through so we went to the council for help. They housed us in a B&B while investigating our case. The outcome was that we were kicked out of the B&B and told to find our own housing as we were deemed to have made ourselves intentionally homeless by leaving our accommodation in another country to come here. We couldn't be kicked out of the country but the council had no obligation to help us despite me being a child.

This is a common scenario. Having a child may prioritise you but if you are not intentionally homeless they are not obligated to house you.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:02

He can't be told to return to another country as he has the right to enter the UK.

I worded it poorly, no you can’t be removed from or ordered to leave the U.K. as a citizen, but you can be strongly advised to return and even offered a free plane ticket back to where you came from if the discretionary funds exist. That’s how I meant “told to leave” as in strong advice.

JaneIntheBox · 03/09/2023 21:12

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 18:25

She would have to come over as his partner and he can support her until she can find work etc.

Show quote history

Did you missed that they've broken up? That's the whole point of this in the first place!
He has 'full custody' which means she cannot come to the UK as she has relinquished parental responsibility, even if she had shared custody she'd still need proof of funds to support herself.
Not only would her 'pretending' to be his partner be immigration fraud nobody would want a sham partnership with an ex for 5 years. She'd also need to fulfil the English language requirements. Unlike ex-Commonwealth countries English isn't taught in Vietnamese schools.

I'm starting to doubt that this thread is even real but even so, your suggestions aren't realistic.

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:16

TheYearOfSmallThings · 03/09/2023 19:18

So you and your child were housed, together, and although they muttered about removing her in the hope that you would sort out housing, they didn't do it. Because that would be an even bigger headache for them.

Show quote history

We weren't housed, we were locked up in a children's foster home together, and I had a listening device in my room recording me. My daughter was classed as a looked after child, and I was just seen as the breastfeeding device who had to prove herself to get her parental rights back. I had barely any of my own rights over her and our day, and the foster mum got to make all the choices over my daughter until we got out of there. It wasn't 'some muttering', I had to find a lawyer and go through courts for six months and prove I was able to take care of her to take her off the protection order. After all that, I only got council housing because my daughter was classed as a child in need, so I don't know how someone in that situation would get housed without going through that ordeal. But of course, you who weren't there know better about my situation and story and trying to warn someone not to take that route.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:20

He has to have the money to move back and a job to come back to.
As he doesn’t have recent renting history, he will need six months rent at least.

That’s realistically his best option.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:23

Thank you cosycardigans, you were breastfeeding. That explains why you were given the opportunity to fight to stay together. They won’t separate a breastfeeding mum and infant/toddler because it’s not in the best interest of the child. As far as I know, no man can breastfeed.

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:26

Brumbies · 03/09/2023 20:39

Thank you this is useful info

Show quote history

Take this as hearsay though. This is the information I was given by the UK consulate when wanting to come back here with my baby, solo. The social services I was referred to, did not want to help and forced me onto the sofa of an ALCOHOLIC relative who did not want us there and told me to sort it out. When I went back to social services they accused me of being difficult. I then went to the local police who advised me to go the the local hospital and explain. Social services still maintained I was wasting their time, and I ended up having a panic attack in the hospital and then told by social services i'd be under a protection order.
So please don't take this as gospel truth that they will definitely help your friend with a hotel, as this is the same info I was given by professionals at a consulate and it ended up very different in reality. It depends where he ends up.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:30

@loislovesstewie
I worked as a homeless officer and did deal with people who were holders of UK passports but were not habitually resident having returned to the UK after living abroad.

How long ago was this? Lots has changed very fast in the past ten years.

ReleasetheCrackHen · 03/09/2023 21:35

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:26

Take this as hearsay though. This is the information I was given by the UK consulate when wanting to come back here with my baby, solo. The social services I was referred to, did not want to help and forced me onto the sofa of an ALCOHOLIC relative who did not want us there and told me to sort it out. When I went back to social services they accused me of being difficult. I then went to the local police who advised me to go the the local hospital and explain. Social services still maintained I was wasting their time, and I ended up having a panic attack in the hospital and then told by social services i'd be under a protection order.
So please don't take this as gospel truth that they will definitely help your friend with a hotel, as this is the same info I was given by professionals at a consulate and it ended up very different in reality. It depends where he ends up.

Show quote history

God how horrible. You trust government officials to know what they are talking about when they advise you of this. That probably helped your case to stay as well- the fact you acted on the consulates advice.

Cosycardigans · 03/09/2023 21:36

Oh btw, even once I was classed as a habitual residence after three months, I had to PROVE this to the council by showing links to social clubs and purchases of house items. It could be more than three months because benefits take five weeks to process and you have to show the council you are able to pay for the temporary accomodation.

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