Nazism and German cars

[BlowDryRat]

I'm looking at buying a VW ID3 but I feel a bit odd about buying from a brand founded by the Nazis. I know there are all sorts of companies with murky origins and business practices but people were enslaved, tortured and killed working to make the badge I'd have on my car.

I did a bit of research and apparently VW have done a lot of work to support and make reparations to Holocaust survivors. But...

What do you think?

(completely misses point) Jack Dee:

If memory serves me right the British Army helped get VW going post WW2

At some point everyone deserves to be forgiven for the sins of their forefathers. Every country has issues that we now are ashamed of

The only person I knew with views like this died about 3 years ago aged 97. I would choose a German product over most others.

Nothing wrong with pondering stuff like this. It is an emotional rather than a logical response. I understand that. In a way I think we all probably have emotional response to things that really require a logical response. Not sure I would buy a house where I knew there had been a nasty murder or murders committed. But that would be illogical.

Would you be friends with a German person who most likely had a grandparent who was in the Nazi party? Your position is as daft as saying you couldn’t be.

I think you’re being ridiculous.

If you wish to make ethical purchases - and that is a laudable aim - focus on what countries are doing now, not what they did 70 or 80 years ago. That way you might make a positive impact rather than just virtue signaling.

I have never looked at a VW and thought nazi.

I don’t think it’s ridiculous. I think it’s admirable that you are considering it seriously. The fact is that some of the companies at the time benefitted from the Nazi regime in various ways (eg using slave labour) and therefore their very existence is based on this terrible legacy. When companies distance themselves from their past sins it is often entirely cynical. Personally I would favour a company with a less troubled past if possible.

Would you buy a car from a company that once made cars in the former Soviet Union - for example, a Lada, - given the connection with Stalin, op?

Total non-issue. But I do have a problem with Western businesses that are censoring themselves and appeasing the Chinese (who are responsible for concentration camps today and threatening invasion of Taiwan). But that's pretty much every global business.

VolksWagen means ‘People’s car’.

The original VolksWagen, later known as the Beetle, was actually one of the Third Reich’s better ideas, and one for which Hitler himself deserves some credit. It was intended to be a small but spacious, modern, economical, practical, reliable and affordable car for the masses. A network of modern high-speed motorways were designed and built for it to be driven on and ordinary families could save up to buy one using a state sponsored savings scheme.

James May made a fascinating documentary about it as part of his ‘cars of the people’ series.

I think that if you are looking for a vehicle that doesn’t affect your conscience from either a human/empathy point of view or an environmental one, you should probably consider walking everywhere. You need to look at the modern mindset of the nation you’re questioning - and I say this as an Aussie who has lived all over Europe.
I can assure you that as a nation, Germany has more humanitarian brownie points than any other country in Europe. They have paid financial reparations right up until the early 2000’s, and High-school kids spend at least a week, twice, staying in concentration camps, and getting a hands-on lesson about how this situation eventuated (poverty, education, looking for scapegoats) and how it’s vital that it never happens again. All of the German people I know are MUCH more educated about human rights and world politics than most Australians I know. (In fact, I didn’t know quite how bad our own human rights are until I left the country!) Up until the 1990’s, kids in Austria and Switzerland were taught that the holocaust happened, but was greatly exaggerated by the Allie’s’ reporting of events. Austria has since changed their teachings, but Switzerland not so much.

I am on holiday in Germany
If I considered whether I was supporting former Nazis every time I spent money I would be driving myself insane.
The Germans are deeply ashamed and embarrassed about their past and your ridiculous virtue signalling is an insult to the 99% of Germans who are decent human beings

I think you're more unreasonable for buying such a bland car from a manufacturer who was so corrupt with diesel emissions. VW are unbelievably mediocre.

And don't get me started on the ignorant BS about buying Chinese goods. FFS people are thick.

There are allegations that the Chinese government is harvesting organs from minority groups - the scale is unclear but if it turned out to be on a mass scale like this podcast alleges (500 thousand) would you
think Chinese goods should be sanctioned Lunar? Just interested to know if you think there is a limit to our dealing with China on moral grounds.

@Xoxoxoxoxoxox

You do realise that governments aren't companies and vice versa? I appreciate car companies are large corporations that may be linked to the state but not all companies that reside in China are actively in cahoots with the regime.

They may be but honestly, unless you know 100% it's just paranoid nonsense and just ignorant BS.

If you're jumping on the anti Chinese bandwagon, do you think twice about getting into a London taxi? Or use European infrastructure that's been paid for by Chinese money, not support the multitude of UK football teams, drank in pubs, not buy Volvo, MG, Lotus or any other of the myriad everyday items that's produced and has Chinese products inside? That'll probably include the tech you're using to post on MN. And why not protest to our government who have welcomed about £140 billion in investment from China and continue to do so, despite all the stuff in the news.

For as long as I can remember, the west has abused and exploited China via cheap labour. All so that we could benefit from cheap products and maximise profits. We're all responsible for turning China into a financial and manufacturing powerhouse and now you don't like what we've been responsible for creating?

Chinese governments have rarely been any different and now you're deciding to get moralistic? Why don't you start by throwing away everything you own that's got a link to China.

The error of the west has always been fast profit and quick gains. China has played the long game and now it's practically too late to sever ties.

Sorry, I forgot Polestar. Also Chinese.

Interestingly, like the Japanese in the 80's, the west was very sceptical and laughed at their ability to make cars and motorcycles. Big mistake.

It wasn't long ago that Jeremy Clarkson mocked Chinese cars and perhaps rightly at the time. But since taking over, Volvo have been excellent, Polestar is amazing, MG revitalised and Lotus going from strength to strength.

VW was owned and rescued by the British Army. Major Ivan Hirst, was a British Army officer and engineer who was instrumental in reviving Volkswagen from a single factory in Wolfsburg,

Well if it’s china and Chinese made products you’re trying to avoid for ethical reasons then don’t get an electric car as all electric car batteries are made in china (so the salesman at BMW told me anyway…)

Hugo Boss was a Nazi and his company designed and made a variety of Nazi uniforms, including the SS (using slave labour)

The past should never be forgotten but I think we pay more honour to the victims by supporting ethical trade and business now, in any way we can, rather than boycotting a country that has learned better ways.

If it helps, I'm of Jewish descent and I have a German car.

Leaving aside the Nazi connection and other issues raised by PPs, I would maybe reconsider getting an id3 if I were you.

We have had a lot of software issues with ours, and even though it's better now (it's been a while since we've had lots of random error messages pop up due to various control unit failures...) it's still very laggy. Plus the range is nowhere near the advertised range.

(It is however very nice to drive).

My father was absolutely not ok with v-dubs.

It didn't matter to him 30 years ago that other companies might have worse or more recent shit histories. He needed to keep that particular hurt constant.

VW was resurrected by the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers at the end of WW2.

It's pretty much a given that the British Army who were instrumental in the defeat of the nazi regime also fully erased it from VW 75+ years ago.

By all means consider history - but consider ALL of it, not just the origin story.