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Ethical dilemmas

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Original poster

My daughter's babtism

21 replies

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 22:33

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I can't find a section on religion. Please point me in the right direction if this isn't the right place.

I have a two year old daughter. I am a christian, I was raised a christian (not strictly, but I did go to church), I was baptised and confirmed. I really respect christian values and feel it would be good for my daughter to use them as a sort of moral hand-hold throughout her life (for want of a better expression!).

I have booked her baptism in a few months time. I am separated from her dad and he is not religious (not atheist either but just has no views on religion, as he has no views on most things) but agrees to the baptism and I have told him the date. However he is incredibly hostile towards me, since I left him as he treated me terribly, and I am worried he will try to ruin it by turning up and then saying he doesn't want her baptised, just to make life difficult for me. So my first question is, should I tell him the baptism isn't going ahead, so that he doesn't show up?

Secondly is the godparents. I only have limited options here. My sister and her husband would be perfect but the problem is they are not christians, but they obviously they need to be. They are however very good and kind people. There is literally noone else I can ask and I have to have at least two god parents otherwise my daughter can't be baptised. My sister and her husband have agreed to be her god parents and to say all the things they need to say at the service. I feel though it would be wrong as they are not christians, but humanists and to an extent it would be lies. Would it be terribly wrong for them to be the god parents? I would welcome any thoughts. Thank you.

OP posts:

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 23/06/2017 22:37

Don't godparents have to be baptised themselves? When DS was baptised he wanted his granddad to be his godfather, but because my dad had been brought up an atheist and not christened, he couldn't be. (DS chose to be baptised at 13 as he became a Christian by choice, we are also atheists).

PurpleDaisies · 23/06/2017 22:40

I really respect christian values and feel it would be good for my daughter to use them as a sort of moral hand-hold throughout her life (for want of a better expression!).

You absolutely don't need to have her baptised for this. You can teach her about Christianity and let her choose baptism if she decides to become a Christian when she's old enough to understand and decide for herself. There's no requirement for children to be baptised to go to Sunday school.

Regarding humanist godparents, I wouldn't ask them to stand up and say things they don't believe in. Can they be sponsors instead?

A thanksgiving (like a christening/baptism but without the water) might be a good option for you. There's no requirement for two godparents.

PurpleDaisies · 23/06/2017 22:42

Don't godparents have to be baptised themselves?

I was a godparent in the c if e before I was baptised but I was a committed Christian.

Original poster

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 22:52

Thank you all for your replies. Yes godparents have to be baptised themselves and my sister and her husband were. I appreciate my daughter can still be raised a christian without being baptised but it is very important to me that she is baptised. I agree though it wouldn't be fair to ask them to say things they don't agree with, but that means my daughter can't be baptised. I do have an alternative, as my dad is a christian and could be the god father, though we have a difficult relationship, and I have a friend who I have only known a few months, who is christian. I would much prefer my sister and her husband though as they are such kind people. Strictly speaking though, I think I know I can't have them as god parents.

OP posts:

leedspirate · 23/06/2017 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurpleDaisies · 23/06/2017 22:58

Are you attending a church at the moment?

I'm confused about what you think a godparent should be for. If you're wanting your daughter to know about Christian morals etc then surely it's important to have Christian godparents? Being a Christian isn't just about being a kind, good person. We absolutely don't have the monopoly on that.

PurpleDaisies · 23/06/2017 22:59

It's the same in the c of e leeds.

leedspirate · 23/06/2017 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

leedspirate · 23/06/2017 23:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 23:17

For me the bottom line is that I love my daughter so much and I only want the best for her. I feel that being baptised or christened would be so right for her and that she and I, and it is mostly she and I, can lead a christian life together and can move together along that path. I appreciate that it isn't ideal in the sense her godparents aren't christians, but I feel it would be unfair for my daughter to not have a christening because they are not strictly christians and unfortunately the requirement is to have two christian godparents. I do wish that having two christian godparents weren't a necessity in this day and age when there is so much sceptisim about religion and families are so fragmented, but these are the rules. I would rather though that she had two god parents that are good, kind people, who would raise my daughter to be a good kind person, if need be, than two christian god parents who weren't as good and kind as them. I know my sister and her husband really don't mind making these vows in church and they would actually believe them, but interpret them in their own way. I would hope God would forgive me as ultimately all I want is for my daughter to be a christian and I would hope he would allow for my circumstances.

OP posts:

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/06/2017 23:23

A very large number of people have god parents who aren't Christian, I think most vicars are pragmatic enough to realise that. So if your sister and brother in law are willing to do it then you'll be in the same position as many other people. If they're both baptised themselves then as long as they're prepared to say the necessary words then they're qualified to be god parents!

PurpleDaisies · 23/06/2017 23:25

Having your daughter baptised won't make her a Christian. Only she can decide that for herself when she's older.

Is there someone at your church you can talk to about what baptism is and isn't?

Original poster

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 23:25

Thank you so much, I was really getting so stressed and worried about it. You've really helped me feel a lot better about things, so thank you so much x

OP posts:

Original poster

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 23:28

Hi Purple I totally understand that being baptised won't make her a christian and I haven't said that at all in any of what I have written. I have had attended an information session about what baptism is and had a long chat with the vicar and am very well informed on this.

OP posts:

HalfATankini · 23/06/2017 23:29

My kids have been baptised without any godparents. You don't have to have any, christians or not.

MyfatheristheKing · 23/06/2017 23:35

Why not wait until she is older? In my branch of Christianity we practice believers baptism, so simply put, don't baptise anyone until they believe. So not babies or toddlers. She can still lead a Christian life until she is old enough to make her own choice to be baptised, be it at 5,15,25 or 95.

Original poster

MissBlueskies · 23/06/2017 23:36

Hi Half my vicar said I had to have at least two Godparents. Were you kids baptised in a regular christian church, if you don't mind me asking? I only ask as my vicar insisted upon it.

OP posts:

HalfATankini · 24/06/2017 19:21

Yes, a totally normal C of E church. I asked our vicar directly if we had to have any and he said no. It's a whole other story why we felt that we didn't want to have them but he was 100% that it was ok.

WrittenandGrown · 30/07/2017 19:31

Why don't you speak to your vicar? I am sure he might know of some people in the regular congregation who he could put forward, maybe like a GodGrandma for your daughter. If you are open to having new people in your life that it. Congratulations on your daughter.

elevenclips · 30/07/2017 19:40

I think it's all fine and I'd just go ahead.

Your ex knows the date but he'd make a monumental twat of himself in public. If he agreed to the baptism in writing (text,email etc) print a screen shot and put it in your pocket to make yourself feel better. I wouldn't lie and say you're not doing it.

Re the god parents, I'd go with your sister and her husband. They love your dd, you are going to bring her up as a Christian and they adore her. All fine.

troodiedoo · 30/07/2017 19:48

If your ex is going to be a problem then you need to appoint a bodyguard to deal with him should he show up. Is there anyone in his family that you get on with?

Surely nobody would be that low though to kick off at their child's baptism?

As long as godparents have been baptised themselves that's the only requirement.

I'd suggest discussing all issues with your priest/ vicar to put your mind at rest.

Flip