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Ethical dilemmas
Original poster

Vegetarian/vegan and keeping carnivorous pets

53 replies

AndHarry · 17/03/2015 09:03

Is it being hypocritical to be a vegetarian or vegan for moral reasons while also keeping, say, a cat or dog for your own enjoyment? Unless you let them go wild and hunt their own food you'd need to buy them meat which conforms to lower standards than meat for human consumption.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
LentilAsAnything · 17/03/2015 13:46

The volume of food necessary to feed the pets of the UK mean that any waste from the demands of humans for meat is not enough to sustain pets, so sadly, yes, other animals are bred for petfood.

I think the other animals deserve not to live their short and sorry lives in horror, with a slit throat at the end of it. That's what it boils down to. An adaptation to your cat's diet vs animals bred into existence, living a horrid short life, then killed. For your cat.

Shedding · 17/03/2015 13:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LentilAsAnything · 17/03/2015 13:57

Some people are just cat crazy though, Shedding, and can't see beyond the cute fluff. Despite being vegans, they care more for cats than they do 'food' animals such as pigs, chickens, fish, cows etc. This is known as being speciesist. (And hypocritical.)

Original poster
AndHarry · 17/03/2015 13:58

Interesting article on the subject from the Ethical Consumer.

OP posts:
dejarderoncar · 17/03/2015 14:14

So Lentil, are you saying that we should allow two entire species, cats and dogs, to die out in order to leave more of the planet's resources for humans? And when, in this perfect world, no one eats meat any more, (hooray!!) goodbye as well to cows, pigs, sheep, chickens etc? By the way, how many kids do you have?

dejarderoncar · 17/03/2015 14:15

ps. speciesist somewhat?

ragged · 17/03/2015 14:19

I can't disagree with what Lentil is saying. I'm not bothered about any of it, either. There are worse crimes that humans get up to.

AlpacaLypse · 17/03/2015 14:24

I consider the benefits of having companion animals need to be weighed up before we start trying to live a completely vegan life. Petting furry things is proven to be beneficial to mental health as well as the obvious physical benefit of getting exercise if the furry thing is a dog that needs exercise.

expatinscotland · 17/03/2015 14:35

And then rodents take over the planet.

LentilAsAnything · 17/03/2015 15:08

dejarderon, I currently have one child. I will not have more than two. Is that ok?

Yes, I would be fine with dogs and cats dying out. Ideally, cows, sheep, pigs and chickens would have some space like deer do, to sort themselves out - strongest survive, let nature take its course, etc. I would like humans to butt out, really. We need to stop meddling.

Alpaca, but then it is all about humans - what purpose cats and dogs have = human's need to pet furry things. Why not pet a lamb if you must? At least they only eat hay (and don't shit their disease-laden shit in my garden/along the pavement).

expat, I don't think cats and dogs do a great job of rodent control. At most, cats paw the poor little things a bit, and leave them half dead. Dogs don't even bother.

mousmous · 17/03/2015 15:21

they would if that were their source of food...

Original poster
AndHarry · 17/03/2015 17:18

The last time I saw a dog eat anything it was a mound of another dog's poo Envy

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 17/03/2015 20:51

'Yes, I would be fine with dogs and cats dying out.'

No, you want to kill them. ' I would rather see dogs and cats euthanised once and for all'.

ragged · 17/03/2015 21:16

If we euthanise them all we should at least eat them afterwords.

There's no moral reason why we eat lambs and not cats.

LentilAsAnything · 17/03/2015 21:18

Same same. Pet euthanasia is still a nicer way to go than the methods used to despatch cows/sheep/pigs etc.

And I'll turn it round for you. Unless you are vegan, YOU want to kill them - just the them being cows/sheep/pigs etc.
And do.

expatinscotland · 17/03/2015 21:40

Meat is meat. And I love it! I'd happily eat cat or dog. I'm so glad the world isn't ruled by people like you, Lentil.

YolandiFuckinVisser · 17/03/2015 22:03

I used to be a vegan. I also didn't keep pets (herbivore or carnivore) on the basis that other creatures did not exist for me to exploit for my own pleasure. I'm over it now, i eat meat & own 2 dogs & 2 cats who also eat meat. I still think lentil is right in many ways, if there were no pet animals meat animals then there would be no cruelty or unpalatable farming methods. However, i am cynical enough and greedy enough to overlook for my own selfish gain these days.

gamerchick · 17/03/2015 22:05

When I think of a militant vegan I picture a wannabe mass murderer of all animals. Dancing barefoot in the flame light of piles and piles of burning bodies to extinction high fiving each other so no animal will ever again be bred and used for food.

It does make me chuckle somewhat.

honeyroar · 28/03/2015 01:52

Some very strange views on here!

I am just in the process of turning veggie. I have two cats (that certainly would survive and feed themselves if abandoned), two dogs (Labradors, so they would probably survive too by stealing and eating rubbish), horses (not sure if they'd survive, possibly) and ex battery hens (that wouldn't last two minutes as they're hopelessly stupid). We've had a pet sheep in the past (which killed itself aged 3 by eating something it shouldn't have, so doesn't have good odds for survival I'm the wild!).

Until the whole human population stop eating meat you can hardly say domestic pets are to blame. Most pet feed is the crappy parts of an animal that humans don't eat. Most feed is only a small part meat anyway, it's bulked out with rice and veg to make it cheaper.

I've chosen my diet. I wouldn't force my views on my family or my pets.

corgiology · 29/03/2015 19:57

As a veggie who feeds meat to my dog I must say that I cannot force my views onto my dog.

She is designed to eat meat. Yes, the farm animals do suffer but not purely for her needs. The good bits (breast, steak, flank etc) go straight to human consumption. The less popular bits (bones, heads, feet etc) go straight to dog food.
Those animals that are sickly or diseased will bypass the human food chain and go straight to dog food. These animals are likely suffering regardless and surely are better off being put out of their misery?

The problem with being veggie I have found is that by choosing alternatives you can sometimes be compromising the planet e.g. leather is a perfectly natural byproduct yet by choosing synthetic leather the plastics used are harmful to the environment. Do we prioritise animal welfare (which is irrelevant really when the animal is already gone) or the environment?

Nothing is truly ethical.

vladimpaler · 07/04/2015 02:11

I still think the impact on the planet of keeping so many cats and dogs alive is detrimental to our earth's resources. We should all be vegan too, so that we may have minimal impact on the planet. Consumption as it is is totally unsustainable.

He he - I thought that the Animal Liberation Front went the way of the Dodo back at the end of the 80s? Cleary in need of an increase to your meds methinks...

vladimpaler · 07/04/2015 02:29

"dejarderon, I currently have one child. I will not have more than two. Is that ok?"

Well, in that case you need to shut your mouth on this subject my love, as your 'green' credentials are non-existent. You can be as Vegan as you want; but it won't nearly make up for the pollution your child(ren) will cause by their existence. Like it or not, having a child is the SINGLE most polluting and resource-consuming thing you can possibly do - period. Most amusing all this drivel about conserving resources; until it comes to answering one's personal (and dare I say selfish) drive to procreate. Then it's all OK ain't it?

Don't get me wrong - I have no problem at all with me or anyone having kids; I have come to terms with the fact that the planet is overpopulated, and is running out of resources. I just don't talk crap about killing cats and dogs off to 'save' the environment whilst being a massive polluter myself. If you want to do your bit and salve your conscience to 'save' the environment; simples - don't have any more kids. Perhaps that is too much of a sacrifice though? Easier to destroy someone else's loved one (and yes, many do look upon their pets like kids of a sort); especially when they "shit their disease-laden shit in my garden/along the pavement". Clearly, nothing personal in your 'moral' judgement (like you hate dogs and cats) then?

What a self-centred hypocrite.

newbieman1978 · 26/04/2015 00:08

I presume if you don't eat meat / consume animal produce for moral reasons it would follow that you would find keeping animals for pleasure immoral also.

cdtaylornats · 09/06/2015 21:38

Would you keep carnivorous plants?

Sorry just a random thought.

BuggersMuddle · 09/06/2015 22:10

I have a 'friend' (more acquaintance these days) who is an extremely vocal ethical vegan (think 269 tattoo, the whole works). She keeps cats and keeps adding to them Confused

I don't get this because I think either:

  • She's perpetuating the deaths of food animals to feed her cats
  • She's not treating her cats very well (I am extremely uncomfortable with the idea of feeding an obligate carnivore a vegan diet. I am not alone in this.)

The cats are kept indoors, so that they do not kill (this is reason - I do know other people have other reasons).

I do think this is a selfish behaviour. Either don't keep the cats, or accept that they are well, cats. Do the cats want to live in her poky flat? I sincerely doubt it. The are very affectionate apparently, but I wonder how much of that is just them being starved of the ability to be well, cats.

My cat is / was semi-feral. He kills stuff and then he eats it. I can't get mad about that - he's a cat. Well I can, but it doesn't help