How long can people live like this?

[HoppityBun]

This might seem callous, but I don’t mean it to be. The thing is, I’m bewildered about how long elderly, bedbound people in their 90s can continue to exist. I’ve got several relatives in this situation. One I know wishes that she had died several years ago: I know because she says so when her children aren’t around. One of the other others, actually it’s hard to tell but she focusses on the next meal, or tea, or sweets, and seems ok. Has a few UTIs and once had a very low breathing rate but was revived. The other, seems to be ok, but at other time seems to be sad and has twice commented that they “just wanted to be all over“.

They’re all in nursing homes, all mid 90s, all bedbound and I just don’t understand how it is that they continue to survive when they are not eating much and not getting any exercise. This has been going on since 2020 for one of them and 2-4 years for the other two.

It seems extraordinary to me and, to be honest, it’s getting family members down. I suppose it’s anticipatory grief, which we’re all warned against.

I’d be interested to know because the way things are going they could all live for another five or six years it seems to me. Gradually declining and getting thinner and paler, but just sort of existing. I don’t want that for myself and I hardly recognise them when I look at them, for the people they used to be. Has anybody else come across this? It’s particularly extraordinary because they’ve lived lives that I would have thought are contrary to all we told about healthy living. Granted, none of them ever drank or smoked, but none took any exercise that I remember. Yet still they are here.

How can the body go on existing?

Realistically this is most likely the result of modern medicine and had they lived at pretty much any other time in history they would have likely passed away years ago.
They will likely be vaccinated against pneumonia, rsv, flu etc, given antibiotics whenever they have an infection and be on a plethora of preventative medications.

In contrast, my great grandmother who was late 80s and had mild dementia but had otherwise been reasonably healthy and fit until this point got pneumonia 50 years ago and the family GP came out to see her and told them just to make her comfortable. She died peacefully at home a few days later.
Nowadays she would have taken into hospital and given antibiotics and likely lingered with a decreasing quality of life for a number of years.

It comes back to the debate of quantity versus quality of life.

we have had a relative die in Ireland because the hospital asked whether they could withdraw antibiotics as they don’t treat elderly people with repeated courses of antibiotics in hospital. By this stage she was immobile and already had a very poor quality of life. Maybe I’ll have to spend my last few years in Ireland.

Sounds more sensible over there

My Mum broke her arm whilst in hospital, recovering from a broken hip - she has UTIs back to back - she has seen so many urologists - they have no answers for her - we even took her to a urologist in Harley St. She lives in a care home now - a good one and is currently in hospital with another UTI - if only preventing falls and UTIs were as simple as your experience informs you.

Quite. These people spouting off about how easy it is to manage UTI’s, numerous falls. Could you please tell us how to stop our elderly people falling?

Maybe they just need to watch where they are going!

Or perhaps have someone sitting next to Mum during her hospital
stays (24 hours) making sure she doesn’t start to climb out of bed to use the bathroom in the middle of the night

So last night family member was admitted to hospital for the sixth time in ten weeks. They go in, they are treated, discharged, readmitted within a week for same problem. there is an operation that could sort the problem but family member is too frail and wouldn’t survive the anaesthetic. They are in pain, confused and distressed. The rest of the family are insistent that there’s hope and we shouldn’t give up on them. The doctors have mentioned palliative care once but this wasn’t accepted by family. So here we are again with them having invasive treatment that will only prolong the inevitable. We are no longer prolonging their life, we are prolonging their death. Heartbreaking

As awful as this is, it’s not assisted dying if it’s suicide. Are you saying you should be able to make
the decision to end your mothers life? Because no matter how bad her mental health issues are, you shouldn’t be able to make that decision.

Are you actually accusing me of wanting to kill my own mother? I've said nothing of the sort! I've said that she is permanently unhappy and suicidal and if she wants to end it, it's her business! I'm not there to stop her or watch over her if she wanted to take all her tablets! My argument was against people stating that elderly parents are all happy sweet people that we should devote ourselves to! I am stating that some of these people are miserable and unhappy and don't want to be here! Some of them are so abusive and horrible that they don't deserve to have that devotion from kids either! Why the hell are you accusing me of wanting to murder my mother! I actually stated that I refused to sign a DNR for her because if she topped herself it would make me look like I was involved because I stand to benefit from her will! Why would you slander me like that! That's awful accusation to make!

I didn’t accuse you of wanting to kill your mother. You’re in a thread about letting people die and assisted dying though.

You stated that I felt like I should be able to.take my mothers life! My mother isn't away with the fairies, she's fully there but mentally ill so how can I take her life without it being murder!
I'm saying let the people that want to go, go and make it easier for them to legally do it.

Utter nonsense!