Probably just need to vent

[Willitevergrowback]

I’m really struggling of late and think it is probably a peri-menopause thing of dwelling on things. Father in law started getting “forgetful” about 6/7 years ago and now has very obvious dementia. He has lived with his partner for 30 years but they have never married. She was a scorned woman from her first marriage and I completely understand therefore that she would not want to marry again and have to then share her assets etc. They are both in their 80s.

Recently his dementia has progressed and so unfortunately he has had to move into a home. Unfortunately this came on the back of a short hospital stay and after implementing the LPA husband has now accessed his bank account. It turns out he has absolutely nothing. About £10k to his name. No idea how he has worked all his life and has diddly squit to show for it. We are left with having to rely on State provision for his care, which has been very difficult to find a home that will be able to cater for his needs. He has finally been offered a place after a couple of months of bed blocking, but it is a little bit further away than his partner would have liked.

She keeps threatening to take him home which we have tried many times to tell her is not an option as it is not safe for him or her (he has lashed out in frustration at her trying to take things off him). She is saying a care home 30 minutes away is not suitable and he needs to be 20 minutes away max. For a state funded bed/home, it is lovely. The staff are all lovely and his room even has an ensuite. We feel very strongly that he needs to stay there. She says she can’t drive herself there and so is reliant on friends, her local family to take her there.

I think the things that are driving me crazy are:-

1. There is a standing order of £100 per week from his bank account to her. When he was at home she would say this did not even cover what he ate. But he now hasn’t been there for a few months and it is still going to her account. We had managed to get attendance allowance in the last few months. When we check his bank balance, she is dipping into his account and withdrawing sums of cash using his bank card which she took off him a while ago when he kept losing/hiding it. It started as £70 here and there and has ramped up since he has been in the home to a £100/£200 here and there. This is on top of the £100 she is already receiving per week. She has a house worth about £300k, a private pension, her state pension and various savings. She has a will leaving her estate to her adult child and adult grandchildren. FIL only has this money in his current account and this is being depleted by her. DH and our daughter are FIL’s only family and I feel really strongly that she should not be taking money and should be using her own as she has chosen to keep their assets separate.
2. She has made a passing comment about having to sort out some of his personal effects, mostly tools etc in the garage, that her grandson might want some, my DH might want to take some and she might do a garage sale. Again I feel ragey about it. They are FILs personal effects and again you both chose to keep things separate therefore his effects are surely my DHs? Should she be Willy nilly giving his stuff away?

She must be doing through an awful time, similarly to my DH - but she can be so difficult to deal with. Very difficult, demanding and it is all about her. I feel like we are all running around after her, with no poor thought for my DH and him losing his dad to this awful disease. I think I’m just being protective, but my menopausal brain is just dwelling on things and I’m waking at 3am wanting to stop standing orders and to cancel the card she has.

DH wants to just get the permanent placement sorted and then said he will have the awkward conversations with her that financial stuff has to stop as the government will stop the state pension and he will only get £30 per week.

I just keep wanting to vocalise that you can’t not want to become legally entwined, keep all your assets to yourself, but also have his money, and have the final say about his welfare. You just can’t have it all - and DH is therefore his legal next of kin 😩

I know, I need to give my head a wobble 🤦🏻‍♀️

I'm so sorry for your situation, and I feel that your take on her is probably correct. I assume your DH has financial PoA and so could stop the transfer of money and credit card if simply speaking to her doesn't work (and I suspect from what you've said, that's unlikely to happen). It's not clear from your post if your FiL was living in this woman's house or if they had separate households. If it's her house, and his tools and things are stored there, then that's going to be trickier for your DH to claim things. But if they lived separately, then if I were your DH, I'd be taking what things he would like to keep now, rather than waiting for his father to die. If your DH does have PoA, then his partner shouldn't have any legal right to move him from the care home he's currently in. While it is undoubtedly distressing for her to be far away (30 minutes rather than 20, though, really isn't much different), your DH is acting in your FiL's best interests. Surely he can instruct the care home that the wishes of this woman are to be ignored? Would she go to kidnap him back or something like that? I sincerely wish you and your DH lots of strength in getting through this.

@SylvanMoon thank you so much for reading and responding to my ramblings. Yes he has lived in her house this whole time, he has always done a lot of work to the houses they have lived in, massively improved them. Paid what could probably be classed as an occupational rent, bought the car etc (which she is using and says she “needs”), but it isn’t worth a great deal.

The biggest pain is DH and her both have LPA for him, but we have been told by FIL’s social worker that next of kin does trump that if she starts trying to remove him from the home.

I believe the home are aware of what she is like, as so far, it’s not good enough that he hasn’t shaved himself every day, that he didn’t have a t-shirt
on under his jumper, that they’ve let him have 2 puddings (the list goes on). They have insinuated she is very “controlling”. And I think she is - but she’s been used to telling him what to do, how to act, and dress etc for donkey’s years, and the home are letting him have some autonomy over choices like personal grooming (rather than pinning him down to shave him). At the end of the day, he has no other choices in his life anymore. But I think she is struggling with the loss of control over the situation.

About 6 years ago we talked to him about going to the doctor about it, and she very forthrightly told us and him, he didn’t have a problem, he just didn’t listen properly. If he pursued it, we would have to have him etc. and he cancelled the appointment 😢

Tell his social worker about the money that is being dd to her from his personal account whilst his care is being paid for by council - they will soon stop that.

Wow, really sorry for all the complications in this. But it does sound like you've got the care home on your side and that they are giving your FiL a sense of autonomy, which must be quite envigorating for him. I do hope you get it settled without causing too much aggro for all of you. All the best.

Your DH needs to ask the Home about whether a DoLs authorisation would be appropriate. His partner would need to go to the CoP to override it.

on the money side, he should report her to the OPG. https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy-guardian

What she is doing is a breach of her Attorneyship.

If your DH has financial POA contact the bank & get a new bank card & PIN asap to stop the person removing money from the account.

Simple

Also get online banking access

Put savings into a seperate account so the person cannot access the money

Her LPA only gives her permission to access his money for HIS benefit. This is dodgy.

Thank you for all of your replies, they have been really helpful and food for thought.

I think the misleading thing at the moment is as he is being assessed, they have said we don’t need to stop the attendance allowance until the financial assessment when his permanent placement is confirmed. Can attendance allowance be used for expenses incurred by her in attending to see him? I think she is providing money to people for taking her to the care home etc. She also seems to keep buying him things like new trainers and clothes etc which he doesn’t really need as he has a whole house full of belongings and the care home said be careful as there are a lot of magpies in a dementia care home.

I am really hoping he can stay in this current home as I don’t think anything else offered closer to where she lives will be anywhere near as nice. He seems to have settled really well, is sleeping well, isn’t trying to escape.

Its not going to be very nice having to have the conversation that we are cancelling the £100 per week standing order and she can’t keep dipping into his account. We may just have to say that when we spoke to the bank to say he moved into a care home, they have cancelled his bank card as he no longer has capacity 🤷🏻‍♀️ At least then she will need to go through husband for any spends on things dad needs. Although as she also has LPA she could I suppose just ask for a card for herself 🙄

There is no restriction on what AA can and cannot be spent on.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/attendance-allowance/before-you-claim-attendance-allowance/what-is-attendance-allowance/

@thedevilinablackdress thank you - so she can effectively dip in and take this whilst it is being received, but when that is stopped she should not be taking any of the rest of his money for her “expenses”?

I'm not saying that, just that there are no rules around what AA can be spent on. Whether or not she can spend money from his bank account depends on what they had agreed as a couple living together. Advice from CAB or a lawyer may be appropriate if you think there is financial abuse.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine. It was her brother who was withdrawing cash from their mother’s account. Her mother was being assessed for dementia and awaiting a care home place. The brother was taking advantage of the situation. My friend basically went into her mother’s bank and informed them what was happening. The bank put an immediate stop on the account. I realise this may be a nuclear option. My friend became her mother’s court ordered guardian (not sure of the correct term). It was all sorted out by the Social Worker. Her mother went into a care home and the fees were paid by the state.

If your father has very little money, I would not even give this oxygen. I’d just cancel the weekly £100 standing order using power of attorney and let her react however she reacts. To be quite frank, she’s very lucky to not have any assets being depleted by your father’s care home fees, which could have cost her thousands if they had married. I assume your father has his care home fees paid for in full by the local authority/state, because he has less than £14,250 in assets. In which case, he won’t be eligible for attendance allowance any longer. You only get AA if you are either still living at home, OR if you are privately funding your own care home fees.

This is a sad story and very tough on you guys as well. I have heard stories before, many times, of sons and daughters expecting their parents to have money after working decades, then finding v little with no 'abswers' as to where it went. It just, well, went.

You really need to get the POA financial element up and running immediately, safeguard that 10k by freezing the account. With no state pension he can't afford to pay her 100 a week, so that's an easy conversation. She won't like it, but the money just isn't coming in. 10k will cover a decent funeral for him, so I'd phrase it as the money is being put away for guaranteed future expenses.

To be honest, she's protected herself and at her age, in her 80s, she's got used to the routine of his 100 a week. Will she miss the money? Maybe... But she will muss the 'feeling' of having the guaranteed money coming in more.

If he's in a good home, don't whatever you do give that up. My grandfather was in a home and his 'friend' (an old lady 88yrs) made every statement under the sun that it was unsuitable for him and he should be moved. After visiting, many times, each time finding it very pleasant, indeed nice, we just ignored her... At his funeral we discovered the reason she didn't like it was that the young staff were mostly non white... "not of their type" in her words...

We were glad to wave her on her way! And even more delighted when he left her nothing in his will, much to her amazement... (she was truly shocked)