AIBU to challenge a care company over inaccurate visit times?

[QGMum]

i have arranged privately for a care company to visit my elderly, frail father in the evening to make him an evening meal. The care company have a minimum visit time of one hour. They spent a lot of time beforehand telling me how they would match up my father with a suitable carer and providing companionship is part of his care plan. I am staying with my father while the care is introduced.

He has dementia and no insight into his own condition and has been very resistant to any help. Now the help has arrived he is quite accepting of it. HOWEVER, despite the care company being very insistent beforehand that they would match up my Dad with someone suitable the carer provided is actually a poor match in my view. I can live with this as I know staff are hard to find BUT on the last visit she left 15 minutes early then logged it in the system as leaving on time. If she had been honest I might have been ok with it. She could, however, have stayed for the extra 15 minutes and tried chatting to him. Despite the dementia he can carry on a conversation. He just doesn’t remember it afterwards.

AIBU to raise this with the care company or should I just let it go? I would say to the company that i want to be able to trust them and the times recorded should be accurate. I would also say that if the minimum time is 1 hour I want them to stay with him for 1 hour and provide companionship as per the care plan. I am disappointed in the dishonest time logged and how can I trust them? The trust issue is the more important one.

Yes definitely raise it!

I used to work at a care agency and carers leaving early was a common problem we had with our staff. It’s often because companies don’t allow enough time between appointments, but we did and it was still an ongoing issue.

Yes ... feed this back.

I understand your annoyance , my mother has carers in daily.
I don't believe there is a perfect solution in this situation , my suggestion is to let some time pass and observe ,you will then see what parts of the package are working and what isn't.
Then speak to the management about it, this is what we have done, there are more positives in our situation which we have praised when speaking to the manager , i know it sounds a bit crafty but it has made a difference when speaking about the aspects that haven't worked so well .
I would absolutely tell them that you would like some of your dads visit to include a chat , sadly some things do need to be made clear.
I hope things work out for you .

Yes, you need to raise it with the care company. It’s very hard to get carers that do exactly what they are supposed to do with the right amount of time and care. My late Dad had carers, he didn’t have to pay. We expressed that my Dad would prefer females, but we got 2 males. At first I thought it wouldn’t work, but over time they got to know my Dad well and my brother who lived with my Dad. He had 4 visits each day, were mainly on time within an hour, but we soon changed it to 3 visits a day, purely because my brother needed to go out and my Dad could be left alone as he was bed bound. You do, unfortunately have to tell the carers what you want doing and if there’s time left over what they should do, otherwise the 15 minutes leaving early will soon become the norm.

I would raise the timing issue straight away. That is unacceptable. Just about possible the carer got mixed up, so you could broach it with them along those lines. I’d ask them to make up the time.

My carers always used to leave early: so I got a ring doorbell to time stamp, when they arrived and left, and would email them to show them.

Yes definitely raise it but I would do so if this happens repeatedly eg each time or multiple times a week.
For my DM the last visit we shouldn’t have been charged as it was cancelled. Over a month later I am still chasing. Be polite but insistent.

My dads used to to get to the next visit up there were a few times where they overrun never once did they down tools and leave him

swings and roundabouts
the ones you get to the minute are more expensive as you have to subsidise the travel time

I'm a home carer. Our minimum visit time is 30 monutes. We have to scan in and out using a QR code.
In your situation, I would definitely mention it

From bitter experience, get a Ring doorbell. We had a 'lovely family run' care company for hour long visits three times daily. Some of those visits lasted less than 6 minutes, they hadn't twigged we could see entry and exit each time.

Thank you for all your replies. I decided to raise it as an issue straight away as I had to contact them about another matter anyway. The care company could see that the carer was already 8km away when she clocked out so they would have known if they checked the records. Hopefully her line manager will speak to her and she will improve.

Can you look for a self employed private carer? ( check references training and DBS) you interview and choose yourself. You’d get the same person/ people and might be able to afford an hour and a half or two hours for the same cost. Not without pitfalls if they’re ill or on holiday but might be doable.

We have a QR code on the back of the front door that the carers scan on arrival and departure.

Yes raise it however were you in the same room as your dad at the time of the visit? If so perhaps the carer felt a bit uncomfortable? Maybe try being nearby but give them space to bond. But they shouldn’t be leaving early like that I agree, and they need to make the effort to get to know your dad.

I’m a self employed carer.
personally I would see if it happens again or is a regular thing. If it is then definitely raise it. If it’s a one off then I’d let it go. Do you know for sure for example what time they arrived? Did they arrive early and then left early? some you have to accept a bit of give and take. Do they charge you if things run over?

I rarely if ever leave early from clients. It does happen particularly when someone is asleep or has visitors. But it is outweighed massively by the amount of extra time I give. The extra 5 / 10 / 15 minutes here and there that I don’t bother charging for. Or the popping into the shop on the way to them to pick them up a pint of milk. So ultimately the client is never short changed on time.

I was not in the same room. I was working upstairs and I heard her leave

Yes I know when she arrived and she was not early. Also the care company has a system for carers to log arrival and departure. She left and then 15 minutes later she logged her departure from 8km away. The care company’s system provides a GPS stamp. If she had said I need to leave early today is that ok, I would have been fine with that. It’s the deception I mind.

I agree with your point on give and take and flexibility but you have to work up to that level of trust. This was only her third visit. She didn’t stay extra on either of the previous two visits.

The carers I arranged for my Dm had so many restrictions on what they would do it became pointless . She lived with me so I helped her shower and made her meals . I really needed a bit of respite sometimes .

I never short changed people with time but the care companies certainly short changed me. Whilst drawing down huge dividends from their companies and getting MBE’s. One week I counted it up and I was unpaid for 16 hours of work in one week. Guess what I left!

I wonder if they do an online system for their notes? I am scheduled for an hour but dont get paid for longer than that so I have to have finished all my notes before I can clock out. I do this in the home mostly, but it can be hard to sit typing on your phone without looking rude and I was told it was ok to leave 5-10 mins early and do my notes outside or in the car. 15 minutes is pushing it a bit tho!

This happens with my Mum's care company. She has dementia with four visits a day (self-funded for the last 5 years and now just moved to 50/50 funding with the LA).

The first visit of the day is 45 mins and the others 30 mins each. I too have asked that carers stay for the full length of the call and chat to Mum as part of her care plan. However carers often leave after about 15-20 mins. Sometimes earlier and on one occasion (with previous company), after 5 mins!

Carers ask Mum if there is 'anything else she needs'. Mum answers "No' (being polite/helpful), then that is taken as her permission to leave early. I feel this is wrong and taking advantage of a vulnerable person, as she has no sense of time, or that she's paying for the call.

We have a QR code that carers scan when carers arrive/leave. Also access to a care company app showing arrival and departure times and tasks carried out. Carers complete the app information within the house, so there's no typing of notes afterwards.

But the start time listed in the app is usually several minutes before carers arrive at Mum's front door (she has a doorbell camera so I can see the actual time on the recording). The overall length of visit in the app will perhaps say 26 minutes, but the doorbell cameras show 16 mins. Over time this adds up to many hours of care paid for, but not given. I've queried this with the carers and the care company several times. Things improve for a few days, then the visits start getting shorter again.

With the tight schedule carers are given by the care companies, might there be a temptation to take time needed for travel from the dementia clients?

It's good that you're on this from the start OP, I hope you solve it!

The company that care for my wife has a folder of information that is left in our house. There is a magnetic chip on it. The carers touch the chip with their phone when they arrive and just before they leave. This puts exact times on their system and I can see the times, and notes, on my phone. The times are 100% accurate.
Why can't all companies do this sort of system?