Why would four staff be needed for personal care in dementia?

[IDontLikeMondays88]

Dad has late stage dementia. We are being told he is so agitated when receiving personal care ie toileting that he is needing 4 members of staff attending to him to do this.

can anyone explain why 4 staff members would be necessary? I just don’t get it unless they are restraining him which I assume they shouldn’t be doing.

from my point of view I just am thinking well no wonder he is agitated with there are 4 of them at him.

You most definitely aren't wrong to question it.
Please don't second guess yourself.
I looked after my mother, a gentle, bright, political woman.
She never understood she had dementia. That's the rub that people without personal knowledge don't understand.
Even the kindest carers(what a job they have!) mostly don't understand that the person they are providing care for is a whole, complete person that has been depleted by dementia.
I have intimate experience of it.
I held my mothers hand as she died in her own bedroom with no one else there.
She was lucky.
Many are not.
For me? I'd take a chemical cosh any day of the week.
Give me all the drugs.
Stay strong, OP

More than 'happy to explain' they have to justify.
Justify.
Imagine the person with no relatives.
Are they to be left without regard? No, of course not. That is why we have regulations.

'little rhyme or reason'
I mean, for fucks sake. These people have a disease that is swallowing their brain cells.
What the fuck do you not understand about that?

I was using that phrasing because the OP seemed reluctant to ask the care home manager for a conversation about it.

The staff should be transparent and welcome questions, is what I meant.

They're obliged to be transparent and answer questions.
It's not optional.

I'm not sure why you are being so argumentative.
Have a nice evening.

Ah. You don't like that your 'kind' input was challenged hence the pass.agg 'have a nice evening'.

"unfortunately bad care and poorly run settings do exist."

This is why the OP is worried yet she's been gaslighted by some posters as if it's totally normal to have intimate care by four carers.
It is not.

Hello OP.

Many dementia patients become very aggressive while they're being changed. They do not understand what is happening, but they experience distress because it isn't normal for other people to assist us in this way. We spend our whole lives being completely private in our toilets and bathrooms.

The patient's response to intimate care is to fight the carers, because they believe they're being attacked.

This means that the carers are in danger, and the care cannot be achieved if the patient is kicking and punching them. The patient can also injure themselves in these circumstances.

In order for personal care to be given as easily and safely as possible, it is sometimes necessary for three or four carers to be there. Yes, they'll be holding the patient's hands, and one will be talking to him. The rest will quickly clean the patient and make him comfortable.

Dementia is a progressive illness and your dad's capabilities when he was at home will already have deteriorated.

I'm sorry you're so upset about this.
In my many years as a nursing home matron, I've seen countless five foot nothing women patients who needed three or four carers at times.

I've even seen a lady of 92 who weighed about six stone, and who was 5' 2" tall, needing four paramedics and two police officers (and me) to get her out of her house and into an ambulance.

Don't underestimate the strength of a very severely demented person.

Why don't you go and watch while they change your dad? Without him being aware that you're there. And do ask the nurses to explain why they need four of them.

Utter outdated nonsense.

You're wrong.

Restraint EVERY TIME IT'S USED has to be recorded. Anyone that doesn't is assaulting the person.

I'm not.

Why is this explanation outdated nonsense?

What year did you stop working as a 'Matron"?

It may be part of the care plan to use safe holds for personal care. This is often the case if there ar skins issues etc and it is a best interests decision.

Because "even a gilded cage is still a cage". Google it.

But it has to be in a care plan.

Wow! How rude do you have to be! You are spouting utter nonsense and being damned rude to boot.

It is bloody clear what I meant by what I put. Yes you’re right the disease is slowly destroying their cognitive function. That makes it impossible sometimes to establish what if anything is triggering their distress. What gives joy one day can be deeply distressing the next. That’s not the fault of anyone. It just is what it is. Sadly it is not possible to keep every dementia patient happy and content all of the time.

Although he must obviously need the extra care that can be provided in a residential home, it's often the case that the change of surroundings can be quite discombobulating so behaviours never displayed at home could appear in the unfamiliar setting. At home, he would largely have relied on inbuilt habit to maintain his personal hygiene routine but now he's moved, all those little prompts have gone. It could have been that it was time for a shit and a shower after the number 30 bus went past at 8:30, for example, but that bus doesn't pass his new home so it's never time to do those things.

Completely agree.

It’s not outdated at all. Nor is it nonsense. I have no idea what the other poster has taken offence to but most of this post is basic common sense.

Not as rude as you, dismissing the torment that people with dementia suffer.
'No rhyme or reason' most certainly does not make it 'bloody clear' what you meant.
In fact it diminished the struggle of people with dementia.
'Their distress' is triggered by the fact that their brain cells are being overtaken by plaques that prevent them from functioning.
With regard to you last sentence, I refer to my previous statement.
I would like a chemical cosh. ALL the drugs. Take me somewhere else, baby!

This is true.

OK. I'll hold you down against your will and no one will help. How's them apples?

She hasn't said what year she last worked.