Care Homes & Money

[Chatterboxy]

Reading some of the posts about care home costs & family top ups has got me thinking 🤔
What is going to happen in the future for the people who have rented their whole lives who have never managed to get on the housing ladder, more these days than a few years ago or for those on benefits & no savings, and no property to sell to afford care home fees, the cost of social care is going to to be massive!

It's already massive.

Totally agree & unsustainable!

Taxes will just go up and up to pay for them.

I can answer this. People get state funded care. If there isn’t any assets then it gets paid for

People get upset about this as they’ve saved, want to hand down money to children etc but it’s the way it is in the UK.

Money gives you choice though, so the people who are deemed as being self funding have more choice about where/how they receive their care.

In my experience most people don't actually go into care homes, and only as a very last resort or for a short term convalescence situation.

But I do take your point and I think that it will be those who have saved money who end up paying more and more. So, if you want to leave some to kids - don't wait until your later years. Try to give whilst you live!

A very small % of the population go into care. The perspective you get on the EP board is naturally skewed.

General health of the population is worsening though with diabetes increasing which massively increases the risk of dementia later on. Dementia is often a reason for elderly people needing care in a home. I wonder though whether better understanding of the earlier risk factors, or indeed WLIs will change general health as a whole and reduce the associated later health problems.

I have given my adult DC a lot of money to help them achieve decent housing in case my home and savings have to be used for care in the future.

@Nodirectionhome that is deliberate deprivation of assets. Although I understand your motives there is a possibility this could be looked into.

It also potentially limits the freedom you and your family may have in choosing a good home should you need it.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/deprivation-of-assets/

Having been in and out of care homes all my working life, I have seen the ‘best’ homes do not always provide the best care! We are retiring this year at 55 and starting to spend and drip feed our money away to children regularly. If I get to 80 plus with little left I’ll take my chances. Would rather I’d enjoyed it and my children had it years earlier when they need it most. The secret is to start early enough and in a regular basis. Die with zero!

But surely that really only applies if @Nodirectionhome is likely to need a care home relatively soon. We are in our 50s and intend to downsize to realise some money to give to the kids as a house deposit. Surely that’s not deprivation of funds. We might not need a care home for 30 years.

You would love it to be that simple: Them with choices and us with none.

Money buys some people more choice but it doesn’t guarantee it. Care needs are a big factor. Unless you are very wealthy self funder, care fees will burn through a your funds really quickly, and many self funders still need to think about what happens if their money runs out and whether their chosen home will continue accepting local authority rates. Because in most cases the state has a set amount it will fund and if you can't pay/ afford the top up, you will likely be asked to find an alternative placement.

For most of us expecting to be self funders and those who will be funded by the state and self funders, it will be “take what’s available”.

As for relying on current average care home stays for reassurance - this might prove quite shortsighted given that we haven't seen the full effect of the post war birth rate increases on care homes or an older population, living longer with poorer health.

Exactly. I downsized to ensure I have futureproofed my home so there is less likelihood of my needing care when I am (much) older. The money I gave to my DC was from the equity released from downsizing. I also spent money adapting my new home for the future older me. I also have a lot of the equity left for care if needed in future.

@Nodirectionhome really sensible choices and excellent post.

We pay regular bills for our DC. Money given to help living costs is exempt

Thank you. I did look at the Age UK link as well. It says:

"What counts as deprivation of assets?
When your council is deciding whether getting rid of property and money has been a deliberate deprivation of assets, they will consider a few things:

If you knew you would need care and support at the time you gave away your assets.
If paying for care and support was a significant reason for you giving away your assets.
If you knew you would need to contribute money towards your care. "

At the time I gave money to my DC there was no reason to believe I would need care and support in the future so it was not a significant reason for the gifts.

I’ve mentioned this on previous threads. I don’t think it’s just about affording care it’s going to start with whether people can afford their rent when they retire.

Something will have to change, the first thing is surely to stop keeping people alive who don’t have any quality of life and who don’t want to be kept alive. I am also going to downsize and drop feedcti DC. My understanding is that if you do this early enough and don’t do anything drastic but maintain your standard of living it cannot apply.

What do you suggest as a solution?

Agree with this. My DF was in a care home - the best one we could find at the time (still awful imho), and he had to self fund, whilst the man in the next room had the same care paid for by the LA. It's an unfair system all round.

Do you think people with no assets should have worse care than a self funder?

Do you think there should be "special care homes" for poor people? How did you know he was LA funded or maybe your father should have worked harder for a better care home.

How do we know that there won't be a huge breakthrough in dementia prevention/treatment though. My grandparents' generation lived in dread of TB yet by the 1950s it was at least treatable and there was a vaccine. I'm certainly hoping there will be a great leap forward in terms of eliminating or at least minimising the progression of this horrible condition, and if govts had any sense they'd be pouring money into research. The other thing that needs to change is the conversation around dying. So many very elderly people are miserable with degenerative conditions and decline and yet the NHS seems hellbent on protracting their existence, and that's often all it is.

Exactly. Why work and save!

I do hope there will be a 'cure' for dementia but but brain diseases are complicated as MS and MND are still here.
I work in dementia and I've never seen a doctor keep a patient alive just for the sake of it, once dementia is at a certain stage, quite the opposite.

However, they are obliged to treat minor reversible conditions like infections etc as to not treat would lead to a horrible death.

There will be far more lonely isolated people stuck at home in whatever size accommodation they can afford to rent (will this cause an increase in demand for social housing for over-65s?) and with carers coming in a few times a day because it will become even harder to get a place in a care home. It’s already very difficult if you can’t afford to pay for it yourself.

It might make the govt and councils build more supported or assisted living type places though.