Registering POA (ancient non-digital version)

[ExpatDaughter]

Sorry, i know this has probably been done to death but i'm running round in circles and you were all a fantastic help last time.

Now the POA has been confirmed by the correct authorities, i would like to register it online, i think you then get a reference number to use every time rather than provide a copy/confirmation it exists?

But for the love of all that is holy i can't find out how to do it. Or isn't it possible?

Others wiser than me will be along hopefully but I have had experience of both the old POA system and the new one.

With the old POA I literally had to go into a bank and allow them to register the POA by photocopying the document. Once they gave it back to me minus one page!!

The next time I did a POA it was using the code method which was much easier but the code does run out (I think every month) and you need to get a new code but much much easier!

What I am not sure of is whether you can use the new code system with the old POA system. Do you ask POA team to give you access or do you literally have to apply for a new POA

I find AGEUK excellent for this sort of advice

Very much depends on when your POA was registered (check on the OPG website) Activation codes were not a “thing” when I did mine with my dad in 2015. Had to physically present all paperwork and my ID to the bank last year in order to activate it and get a card to use on his account.
My husband registered his with his parents in 2022 and has “activation codes”: however the take up of this process appears patchy and inconsistent- Santander bank were great and it all worked effectively, however Barclays Bank, the conveyancing solicitors on the sale of their bungalow and indeed the land registry wanted certified copies of original documents (which we had to organise and pay for) So the system can be frustrating and labyrinthine unfortunately.

Thanks all - it was issued in 2012. I have successfully activated it at the bank (by the tried and trusted method of turning up with it in my hot and sweaty fist, coupled with my passport and ID card)

But i mislaid the paper copy (suspect it is at my parent's house) and i wanted to do a couple of things (like cancel the RAC on her car, cancel a SIM card that she was sold for a tablet she neither needs nor uses etc)

I'll check with Age UK but i suspect i will have to send a copy of the confirmation i have received that the POA is registered if i want to cancel those things.

Can you call the Office of the Public Guardian , they should be able to help.

I've registered a more recent lpa, but can't remember how. It seemed straight forward.

i can write and ask them. I'm not in UK so calling is a bit of an issue.

Indeed. I did email the OPG about something at the time.

If it was issued in 2012 then it's one of the old paper-only versions.

Confirmation that the POA is registered is meaningless for this type. You need to use the original paper document (or a certified copy) to register yourself as the attorney for every single organisation where you want to manage the donor's affairs. Some, like a bank branch, will let you walk in with it (and their competence in recognising varies from absolutely terrible to much, much worse) but for others you'll need to send it off by post and hope they send it back. They need to see the physical document and most will want to take a copy for themselves.

I strongly advise that you get a number of certified copies made once you locate the original, and send these in the post rather than the original if you have to.

If any of your details have changed (for example if you've moved house or changed your name since 2012) then there's a whole load of other issues. I found that emailing the OPG and taking a printout of their response/acknowledgement was about the best workaround.

For things like the RAC or a SIM card, in the first instance you might find it easier and just as effective to use your banking authority to simply stop payments.

I've emailed the RAC with a pdf of the confirmation and a photo of my passport, let's hope 😄

As it happens I'm on my way to my mum's so hopefully I'll find the original (supplementary qurstion: how do i get certified copies?)

You take it to someone who is authorised to certify copies. In England at least the legal definition is vague and somewhat twee - a 'professional' or someone of good standing - so it could be a solicitor, a bank clerk, the Parish Vicar or even a teacher or dentist. On my estate there are half a dozen who'll happily offer to do it and there's usually at least one working from home on any given day but, unless you know someone, in practice you'll probably find it easiest if you walk into a high street solicitor who at least will have a stamp with the right wording on it. They'll usually do it on the spot for a small cash fee - it's often regarded as a 'perk' of the job and the cash goes straight into the pocket of whoever does it.

No need for it to be notarised in the UK, unlike some countries. Each and every page needs to be signed and have the correct wording written (usually stamped) on it.

https://www.gov.uk/certifying-a-document for further info. Note that for a Lasting Power of Attorney there are different rules (link is within that page) and the donor can certify it herself if she still has capacity for her own decisions, although whether organisations would accept that is another matter!

Gosh it's all so flipping complicated.
Thank you

This might not help as I have only gone through the electronic method, but I would probably think there is a way to update your POA once through the Office of the Public Guardian, and this is definitely the way to go if you can, because then you can use the process multiple times, and it is simple, and most organisations accept it. My experience is I did the whole POA about 5 years ago, and they sent me an activation code (which I ignored) and the proper paperwork with the lacework letters at the bottom. Again, just stored. Funnily enough, I told the Doctors that I had POA and they just put it on the record, and have never asked for any paperwork. I have recently tried to do some banking for mum, who is now far worse than she was, and they said the easiest way was for me to "give them a code". I went back to the original letters and they did say there was a code, but it had expired. I then applied for a new code with the OFG, they emailed me to say one was coming, and then it did, by post. I then had to go back onto my OFG account and press the link that says "use a POA", this made me put the code in (valid for a year) which I did. Now, every time I need to lodge that I am POA with any organisation, I simply go onto the govt OFG website and type in the name of the organisation that I need to lodge it with (like Lloyds Bank) and they give me a different code that I use to deal with them. I rang Lloyds tonight, and they asked me what the code was, this was given, and they asked me a few questions (fair enough) about who the person I was POA for and my own details (again, all fair enough). The only question I was not completely sure about was the capacity of the person I was POA for. I settled for "partial" (mum can sign cheques, mum could, in theory use her bank card if I took her to the bank) however her dementia is so bad that she would have no idea what she was doing it for - however, she trusts me. They asked me if I wanted to revoke phone banking and internet banking, and I said yes. But I said that I wanted to be able to do internet banking on my mum's behalf. luckily I am also with Lloyds, and they have said that when I log on (as myself) I will be able to see my own account, but also switch to my mums if needs be. The one thing that I sort of regret is that I haven't just done this process sooner, it isn't that hard and you only need an hour to get it sorted (albeit in steps) but getting that electronic key is vital. Anyway I hope that this helps xx

OP - the Post Office will make certified copies for £12.95. A local solicitor charged me £20. (I used the solicitor when I needed it for another solicitor who needed it for the Land Registry who are probably still using quills and leather bound ledgers....)

Interesting that Lloyd’s let you flip between accounts on your banking app, HSBC would not allow that so I have to go through the desktop app to do Dad’s banking.
Thus far I have only activated POA for banking, but I imagine I’m going to need to do more as time goes on..having created it in the “pre-codes” era I foresee troubles ahead..shame they can’t issue codes for those who set this up several years ago to bring us up to date!!
it is a minefield of misinformation and stress, and one does need ones patient pants pulled firmly up before going in to battle..
As if dealing with recalcitrant or poorly elderly relatives isn’t stressful enough!!

Oh the bank (also Lloyds) are fantastic when i go into the branch. They are great when i go into the bank with her card and can do everything the account holder can do.

The one thing i can*t do which is really what i want the POA for, is to do online banking because i am not in the UK. Something about setting it up needs a uk based mobile number. Which i don't have.

I found the documentation that i did have. It is a photocopy. I may have to call the solicitor who set it up and ask them about it. That is all i have ever had. But the bank must have accepted it because that is how i set up the POA at the bank.

I will see what the Open Registers reply is. They say "expect to wait 20 days for a reply" and last time that is exactly the amount of time they took so I expect a reply next week.

@EdnaMole if i get any positive feedback about registering a pre-electronic POA i'll come back and post it.

I spend short intensive bursts with my mum. Currently nearly half way through this one. There is a lot of teeth gritting and sorting out the garage which doesn't need sorting but is cold and so a no-go zone for mum most of the time.

Is your mother able to sign a letter?
If so, for things like cancelling RAC, type a letter and get her to sign it.
I had the old fashioned type of LPA and I only ever used it for financial institutions, social services, care home etc. It was too time consuming to bother to send off ID etc to cancel things like her pet insurance, so when she could still sign a letter I did it that way.

Also, is the photocopy you have of the LPA signed and dated on every page? If so, that is a certified copy.

@ExpatDaughter would it be possible to buy a cheap UK SIM card which includes roaming to your home location?

Watching this thread as I'm pondering whether to brave taking the finance LPA (which can be used now, it's not a "wait until capacity lost" one) to her bank. Who IME can be flaky.
There's a branch in town, I might pop in to talk to them on Monday - not bringing any paperwork with me on purpose, so it can only be just talk!!
In the main my ER is fine but she can get overwrought about stuff on occasion - so I'd want her to retain all access to her account, but for me to be able to make the odd payment on her behalf.
My concern is that I would arrange this with her bank, they would swear blind it was all in order, and then the next thing we'd know is she couldn't log in because they'd messed it up. Trouble is you can't tell in advance whether they're going to mess it up!!

I need to have another look. The RAC cancelled based on the confirmation of POA and my passport copy so that's ok. Mum can sign etc, she is fairly ok most of the time. Just tired and (now) getting very forgetful.

so i have received rather garbled information saying that they will come back to me shortly with instructions of how to generate a code with the POA (acknowledging that it is ancient)

So i will wait.