Visiting elderly parents when only good relationship with one

[CatLady476]

I have a good relationship with DM but not DF, who was emotionally neglectful at best, controlling and borderline emotionally abusive at worst. Both now very late old age,still together. The problem is my DM is now too old to see me separately - going out is too much effort. So if I want to see her, DF will be there. He's not at his worst these days, but still an unpleasant and unstable man, who can flare up without warning. After a fair bit if counselling, I can be polite to him but would rather keep him at arms length. Anyone in a similar situation? Got any advice?

If you visit your DM, does DF have to be in the same room? Could you, say, see your DM in one room while DF is watching television in another? Does DM know how you feel about DF, or would she think it odd if you saw her separately in their home? In the final analysis, if your DF is there whenever you see DM, you have to decide where your priorities lie - is it more important to you to see your mother than to avoid your father?

It's a small flat with only one living room, so yes, he's usually there.DM is aware it's not a good or a close relationship but she keeps trying to make it better - and it's far, far too late now. I mentally stepped back from a father-child cut relationship with DF decades ago after years of trying because he's just not capable (or willing) to be honest about what's happened or change his behaviour. He will simply deny X or Y ever occurred and blame you for raising it (DARVO/gaslighting).

I think it's more important to see DM than avoid DF at present, particularly because he doesn't treat her very well either and I don't want her to be isolated with him. I can do surface level politeness with DF but don't want particularly close prolonged contact - I live at a distance, so can't just pop in for an hour.

His behaviour isn't (often) as bad as it once was but I've spent a long time learning boundaries and I risk pressing "override" on them to keep everyone else comfortable. In the long term, that's not good.

I also really love DM and want time with her in these last few years. I know it makes her happy to see me and she gets lonely.

You have all the power here . He is an elderly man now with no influence on how you live your life . His opinions do not mstter.You will never get the apology or acknowledgement that you want . And it needs to not matter so much to you . You know the truth . Don't let his presence spoil what time you have left with your mother
When you visit perhaps you could take your mother out for lunch , or for a coffee near their flat .

Thanks Soonenough, genuinely I do not care two hoots about his opinions, and am not holding out for any acknowledgement or apology. That ended decades ago (with the help if a great therapist).

I just don't want to spend a lot of time near him and I do want to see my DM - the issue is that she is now too elderly to be taken out and I can't see her without him present. I was wondering if anyone else was in the same boat and if so, how they handled it?

I’m in similar situation with my mother’s husband. He is tolerated. Although I am in a better position that I’m local and mum still can get out and about. I’m becoming more aware that I don’t want to be in his presence at all. But tolerate it for mums sake. Hope you get some advice that helps. I’m able to just go for an hour several times a week and that is enough for all of us.

Could your mum manage to get in a taxi so that the two of you could go to a local cafe?

Can I ask what the reason is she can't go out? Is it a mobility issue, has she got dementia, would she be too tired etc?
I work in the community enabling people and help even the most disabled and elderly people get out and about - that might mean push her to a cafe across the road in a wheelchair for an hour, but it means you get a little 1:1 time.
Otherwise does DF go out at all? Could you time visits for when he's not likely to be there, or could you just ask your DM to ensure he gives you some 1:1 time by watching telly in the bedroom or something?
It's great you can be polite etc, so I would start being more assertive about what you need to be able to visit comfortably. The worst that can happen is he refuses, and your relationship is already down the pan so it doesn't matter if he's offended.
Sorry no personal experience though.

Thanks @Myeyeisnotokay , she just gets very tired now (v late old age). There are no cafes nearby - they live out in the country and I take a train to see them so do not have car. I've asked about hopping in a cab to nearest village and she has said no. I wonder how much the exhaustion is living with my DF - he's...a handful. My DF does not have a TV in bedroom and would be massively insulted if I asked - then that becomes unpleasant for my DM who will run around soothing him for hours or days afterwards. I just want to have some nice, fun time with her.

Thanks @unicornsarereal72 - good to know I am not alone! "Tolerated" is a good way of putting it. I have just come to accept that he is who he is, and that ain't changing. My DM is prepared to put up with behaviour that I find unacceptable, and that ain't changing either.

I could have written your post. I’m in exactly the same position. My mum also won’t go out without him when I visit as he makes life unpleasant afterwards.
however for now she is still mobile and goes to a few clubs she belongs to when she is well enough.

my current strategy is to only visit with my partner who keeps dad occupied so I can chat to my mum so I see her about once every six weeks as they are a few hours away.
it’s a shame but like you I’ve had the therapy and accepted nothing will change, but equally want to maintain a relationship with my mother.
do you have anyone you can take with you to keep your dad distracted?

Sorry to hear you are in the same boat too @NattyKnitter116. That is a pretty good idea tho! I had been thinking of having a small project in mind for me and DM, which would not interest DF at all, even if it's something mundane like tidying a cupboard together. But something to keep him occupied is worth thinking about too. I can't rope my partner into visits often, as it takes a full weekend day to travel there and back and one if us needs to be home with DC.

My other thought was that maybe DM and I could cook together (I would do the cooking, DM would pretty much just keep me company). He would then get the benefit of a nice meal afterwards, which is a win from his point of view. He would see that as a treat for him so would be unlikely to act out at being excluded.

I do know how tremendously frustrating it is when other people (who will never grasp the situation) keep suggesting that you do something which, for one reason or another, you just can't do.
Please forgive me if that is what I am doing in this post!

Are your parents trapped in a small flat together without the possibility of getting out anywhere? My mother was doubly incontinent, senile, unable to walk, etc, but I would lift her into a wheelchair and take her outside because being stuck in one small space was so depressing. Is any way at all that your mum could get outside, even if it is bundled up in a DryRobe and sitting outside somewhere with a thermos of tea. How do they get groceries? Could you rent a car for a few hours or a day, just to have an escape? Or is the real problem that your father is controlling and will put pressure on her so she will refuse to leave him?

It is such a relief to have time alone with someone you love, and such a good thing for her to get out, even if just briefly in bad weather, with no where very interesting to go.

If they are very old OP, the 'long-term' probably isn't an issue. I can't see how you can see and maintain a good relationship with your DM without having to interact with him on some level. I think you just have to accept that this is the situation until one of them dies. It's not easy, but mentally I think you just have to frame it as you need to support your DM and given her choice to stay with your abusive DF you are being put in this position. I'm in a non dissimilar one and I keep visits short and infrequent, but beyond that I've accepted there is nothing I can do. We all have to live with certain other people's choices in life and just make the best of them 💐

Hi @Greenfinch7 thanks for your sensitive reply. I appreciate it! I think when the weather is nicer we can go for a little potter round the communal gardens to see what's sprouting. It's not been a great month for that, but that will change by spring.

I don't quite know what is stopping her going out with me - the nearest village is only 20 mins by cab and she reacts as if I have suggested climbing the Himalayas! I suspect it's partly tiredness and partly not wanting to decentre DF (because she feels guilty? will get blowback? has not done it for so long she gets stressed?)

She does have some friends in the care complex where they live, who she can go and see internally, so she does have people around (I can't say more as would be identifying). But she continually centres my (at best prickly and self-absorbed, at worst really volatile and unreasonable) DF - seems to regard it as very disloyal to go off and do her own thing,even if it's popping over to a friend's for coffee. My hunch is that means she has far fewer really close friends than she would have otherwise.

Thanks @zurigo - I have had much the same conversations with myself for the past 10 years! Time will inevitably resolve this - so it may just be a question of waiting it out. But I would like not to do myself any harm in the meantime.

So sad when people get trapped by their marriage, OP. Often without even really seeing that this is what is happening. I guess if your dear mum had been able to see hold on to her own life and independence, she might not have ended up wanting to stay married to your father... and she would have been a different person.
It is painful to see all of this play out between our own parents and to be unable to help, or even to discuss it with them.

That’s a good idea if you think your father would tolerate it. My dad can’t - gets jealous. He never did when younger but he’s been retired for nearly 25 years with no hobbies and my mum kept the social wheels rolling until she opted to check out and now mostly avoids him via the medium of her iPad and headphones!
Thats mainly why I take my partner. Also because my dad very unlikely to kick off then as he’s basically a vain insecure bully.

but if your dad is unlikely to get physically nasty you can both just crack on with your project (drawer organising is a lovely idea actually. My
mum and I love pottering and nattering with jobs like this).
Enjoy your lovely mum. View your dad as a badly trained dog that needs navigating. Works for me!

Yes good idea assuming he stays out of the way. My dad has a tendency to hover then gets arsey when he’s asked to leave the kitchen - again, only since later retirement.

Honestly ladies, if your husband is close to retirement I cannot emphasis enough how important it is they have a hobby - preferably something not too physical (my dads was cycling with mates but at nearly 90 it’s no longer viable).

This only applies to the husbands unable to occupy themselves without disrupting everything around them !

I really appreciate all the kind and thoughtful responses on this thread. Just being able to talk about it (even anonymously) really helps. I am not conscious of being stressed when I visit but tiredness/migraines/eczema kicks in around 3 days after I am back. I think thats my body telling me it was more effort than I realised, which is why I have been thinking about what approach would be better for me and for DM.

Those of us who grew up under a lot of pressure to put others' comfort ahead of our own needs/truth might recognise that pattern. I don't always "know" what I need or even how I feel until later. I think my body waits until I am back in a 100 per cent emotionally safe environment and then it sort of decompresses.

I can definitely relate to this OP!
My Mum is still willing and able to get out so I sometimes take her for lunch or for a coffee without my Dad. I inevitably have to see him sometimes though and he just isn't a very nice man. I find the relationship with him difficult as he isn't all bad and I do love him in a way but I just know some of the things he has said and done which are hard to forgive. They are both late 70s now and not in great shape physically or mentally. I feel I should see them more - especially my Mum - but it is hard work and I often come away feeling sad, frustrated or angry.

I think there’s usually a large degree of entrenched co dependency involved. I’ve spoken to my mum about why she didn’t leave and it’s very complex. Luckily I finally broke the cycle and left two bad situations before finally meeting my lovely, decent partner who I’ve been with for 25 years.

Same here x

Yes , I’m exactly the same. It took me a long time to make the connection in terms of my father but once I did I took action, went low contact and now have another phone that I check once a day (in an emergency they’d call the landline or my partner - although their idea of urgent is quirky to say the least - but partner isn’t in the pattern so can react rationally).
my health has been far better this year as a result.
i think we are a fairly unique sandwich generation as had kids later and parents living longer so many of us are going from caring/working to retired/caring plus possibly looking after grandchildren. So we have to enforce the boundaries as it’s also likely we grew up with little respect from our parents for our own and consequently little self awareness.