Elderly/ill PIL, financial disclosure stress

[Timeforarethink121]

PIL have historically been nice, friendly, I like them as people, fond of our children etc. Mild ill health due to lifestyle factors, FIL diagnosed with Parkinsons a few years ago.

FIL has worsened very fast, (strongly suspect dementia is a complication, but again it has taken a crisis to get them to push for this to be assessed.) They were thinking of moving early last year and then we discovered a series of things which would affect a house sale, which I won't go into, but seriously call into question financial and legal decisions and behavior from 15+ years ago. This is long before any cognitive issues would explain it and have made me really worried.

Since then DH has been trying to get MIL to have some sort of discussion about finances to help them plan as she says they now won't move. The house is old, in need of repair and frankly dangerous for someone with mobility and cognitive problems to live in - FIL has already had several bad falls. DH thinks MIL plans to stay put, which is not safe for FIL and therefore they need funding for some sort of care home or for a live in carer.

Before the discoveries we assumed that they'd be able to use savings/equity release as is very common, but since the discoveries last year, I am seriously worried about what else we might find out. MIL won't discuss finances with DH, which only makes me think there's more we dont know. I'm not sure if anyone has any advice or if I'm just looking for strangers to share my worries with as having these conversations with DH is just upsetting us both..

If you are able to be a little more specific about the discoveries, that would help people advise. Have they already taken equity release, set up a trust, done something weird with the savings?

Dementia as part of Parkinsons is very common, especially in the later stages. It tends to be the Lewey body type, but of course some people are unfortunate enough to also develop a different type.

I am presuming you are referring to something illegal in which case its no wonder your MIL won't sell if she thinks this will come to light.

I dont think there is much you can do apart from get advice from a solicitor

Is he claiming Attendance Allowance. This could help with the cost of having carers in.
They need a care needs assessment for him. If they have savings less than £23250 then they may get help with care costs ( having carers come into the home). Request an OT assessment form their local authority, there are lots of things that can be put in place to help with his safety.

It's probably something like they've still got an interest only mortgage which has never been paid off. This catches out so many people. They just don't seem to have planned for how the mortgage was going to ever be paid off !

Yes to claiming attendance allowance. Not a simple mortgage issue, definitely worse. (Not prison worse, more like fine/unpaid money.)
I'm worrying about FIL in a practical sense given his health and needing a solution for help, and worrying about how deep the other problems go, or if we'll find out about other things as it's been a bit of drip of information, and if we have to financially step in.

I'm not sure there's much to help with really, it's the worry from lack of information and maybe I just need to get a grip on myself until we know more..

There are many many threads in Elderly Parents where the parents refuse to take the advice of their children, or persist in doing things the children think are foolish.

Does your MIL want any input from DH? Does she have the mental capacity to manage her own and her husband's affairs (and people do have the right to make unwise decisions).

If it's No and Yes, then you need to go the Let Them route and wait until an insurmountable problem arises (eg MIL accepts FIL needs paid-for care so either they have to find the money or to disclose the real position to the council in a financial assessment).

If your MIL wants input from you then things are different. But if she and FIL are happy to coast along then there is little you can do right now.

As a PP said, Parkinsonian dementia sounds likely from what you've said about FIL.

I would normally suggest getting them to set up financial LPA for your husband to take over, but if there are undisclosed debts and general financial horrors I personally would not want to get involved. I had financial LPA for my mother (dementia) for years and it was bad enough doing it when there were no skeletons in the cupboard.

It really depends on whether they have (a) sorted out the issues or (b) could do so now. But as you say, you probably don't know the full extent of it. One of you needs to have a frank discussion with MIL and permission to unofficially look through their finances before you can decide what happens next. If MIL won't allow that, I would leave her to it.

Just to add also . As he has Attendance Allowance in place, if he is diagnosed with some sort of dementia or Parkinsons related dementia he should be able to apply for the severe mental impairment disregard on their council tax bill which will get them 25% off the bill. It does need the GP to sign the form to say he has mental impairment. It would be a bit of extra help.

I agree that he needs a care needs assessment to put strategies in place to help them stay in their home. Your DH can assure his Mim that this is a practical assessment.

Re. Finances. @catofglory is right in that while LPA would be useful, it may lead to your DH having to deal with things that he’d prefer not. Although, it’s also possible that your MIL has built up the problems in her mind and they’re not as bad as she believes?

It would be better if she share everything with your DH and perhaps he can help her sort it out. It’s difficult though, I have LPA for my Dad but he’s still secretive about his finances.

DH does have LPA, which I think feeds into the stress - presumably this doesn't kick in though as MIL has full mental capacity still but just doesn't want to talk to DH about how to finance care?
Thankfully have heard this afternoon that a mental assessment should actually happen next week, which may push the issue.

Agree we probably need to wait and see, I just feel at the moment I have to put any major financial decisions of ours involving our future or our own children on hold until I know what's coming. You've all been helpful at calming me down though - last year was a nasty shock..

If your Dh has LPA for finances (for both of them?), he can already act, if the LPA says that he can - IIRC the default is that you can act at any time once it’s been registered. Obviously your MIL may not be willing, and it’s not as simple as just barging ahead anyway, though in very practical terms he could go to the bank and do that - she could have him removed as attorney, which it sounds like would be a really bad outcome.

It’s the LPA for health and welfare that isn’t relevant until the person involved is found not to have capacity for a particular decision, temporarily or permanently. Does your DH have both?

Hello, I'm in a very similar situation. Op, how close/far geographically are your in-laws? I've recently moved my parents nearer me because the stress of dealing with their legal, financial and moral revelations, as well as them not having heating/hot water, an unsafe house (unfinished and unsigned off building works), dementia, hips need replacing, etc etc over three hours from where I live was making me ill.
It's such a hard situation because you can see the juggernaut coming at great speed but unless you do something about it, nothing will change. Fortunately early last year someone said to me get LPA in place which I have, because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to update the land registry, handle HMRC, companies house, paying bills, and even begin to sort out the disaster that I'll still have to deal with when they die anyway so I felt I was better off sorting it now and trying to make the next few years a bit more comfortable for them and less stressful for me. There was a point i was visiting and discovered another massive problem every, single, time. And tbh i haven't actually probably discovered everything.

You can use the lpa to get a handle on what the current situation is rather than actually changing anything. So I now know what pensions my dad has, what savings they have, etc, to be able to plan with them. I haven't touched anything, I've just found out. I've said when asked that they do still have capacity which is true so I'm comfortable with what I've done. My mum has never been involved with finances and I'm trying to get her confidence level up too, to be able to deal with things herself.

It is, I'm afraid, an absolute nightmare.

My DH is secretive about his finances. Thankfully I do his tax return as well as my own hand them to the accountant so there's no nasty surprises to come to light.

I'm so sorry for anyone who's having to sort out a financial or any mess that comes to light.

Perhaps because of the dementia things may be simpler legally as awful as that sounds it does give @Timeforarethink121 something of an out when the parent isn't compos mentis.

I'm so sorry for you too, there are definitely some parallels between the situations. I really hope things get easier for you too? (We're also a few hours away)

I hadn't realised about LPA giving you the ability to request information early, so will mention to DH - I imagine he night might worry about the fallout if MIL thinks he's been snooping but it may be useful if it can help him work out what's happening and what's available for arranging care.

Also has the health one - FIL definitely lacks capacity now but as MIL is fine I think there will be sensitive issues around DH taking unilateral action.

This has been really useful talking it through!