Advice on where to start with elderly father

[YouSayTomatoISayTomato]

Hi all, I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice or experience that could help me please.
My dad (early 80s) has lived at the other end of the country (think far north Scotland) for around 30 years. He's recently had a health scare and has decided he needs to come back to the UK to be close to me and my brothers (3 of us in total). No discussion, he's decided. He has form for previously appearing unannounced and staying indefinitely, so we're determined this won't happen, especially as he's ill and needs looking after. I was wondering how to go about sourcing housing for him - I know of a few housing associations places for elderly people but have no idea how he gets in - is it just a matter of space, and he pays to live somewhere? He lives in his own little bubble and thinks he can stay with me but he can't- not for longer than a couple of days, we don't have the space and we're out all day at work anyway so couldn't look after him. Has anyone been through similar, or have any suggestions? Would be really grateful! Just to add, we don't have a great relationship as he moved up North when we were young and it suited him fine until he decided he needs us! So I may come across as unsympathetic due to that!

If he turns up at your door - which unless friend is an actual saint he will - find whatever reason you can to get him admitted to hospital ( sorry I know this is one of the reasons why NHS is in a state ) then tell anyone and everyone that he can’t live with you and he has currently nowhere to go to so it’s an unsafe discharge and make it social cares problem.

Yes exactly this. Well in the last 24 hours, he's travelled down from Scotland, arrived at his friend's house. The friend promptly parted him off to hospital where he's been admitted for tests etc. The friend has said they have space for him when he's released, but he's been messaging today talking about transferring to a hospital more local to me (the friend is a 2.5 hour drive away). I said no! Because of what is mentioned above - once he's released from there, he'll be expecting to come to me and he absolutely can't. It's so frustrating because my brothers and I are being very clear in what we can offer, but he's determined to do it anyway. It's like he thinks we want to look after him... in his deluded mind, of course we do!

In this case I think you need to say it's as n unsafe discharge and make it clear you can't look after him.

Maybe it's a good thing he's ended up in hospital. Although he's far from his home address so not sure how this would work in terms of social care.

I told him there's no way he can move hospitals. At the moment his friend, who doesn't work, can visit every day. I can't! Plus the friend has room for him to be discharged to. I'm worried that he keeps making impulsive decisions without me or my brothers being there.

I don't think he'll be able to get social care, as he's got his own house and is choosing not to live there!

It's such a bloody mess!

Sounds like friend was not told the full extent of his infirmity. If they genuinely will move him whilst in hospital- and I am not sure if they would even do that until it’s time for release- then surely if he is to be moved it should be to near his own home, or mainland hospital near it. In Scotland he will be eligible for free home carers if needed which it sounds like they are. Friend will of course be pushing to move the problem to you, so let him know this as well so he has a plan B rather than you.

I am not sure if it’s better to advise hospital that he cannot be discharged to you or DBs address, or keep out of it altogether. Hopefully someone else can advise.

I think that it’s possible that the friend has had more information than you, and has offered him to stay precisely to get him into hospital so that he gets the correct care.

In your position I would go to the hospital to have a look for myself at how well or unwell he is, and speak to the doctor properly about his needs as well as being very clear with the hospital that he cannot come to you on discharge.

I suspect that he is very frightened and not really listening to what you and your brothers are saying, just panicking because he needs someone to look after him. Do you have a phone number for the girlfriend?

I agree, none of us were told the extent of his "condition", not sure whether this was deliberate or he hasn't realised himself.

No contact details for the girlfriend - have never met her! He has lived a separate life for 7 or 8 years, not needing us at all. Irregular contact during this time, no visits either way.

The hospital is a 6 hour round trip and me and my brothers work full-time in jobs where we can't just take a day off - trying to plan a time for at least 2 of us to go and see for ourselves.

Well at least he's in hospital I suppose. Would it be an idea to ring PALS there and request a social services assessment and tell them the situation I wonder?

I had similar with an elderly relative and they did that once...but it was an OT from the hospital rang me as he had told them I was next of kin..

Personally if it was me, I would have a conversation with the friend and tell them firmly you want no involvement at all, his arrangement with your dad is not your business, block his number. Do not spare your dad's embarrassment tell him your dad is a stranger to you.
Also speak to adult services at the hospital and say you want no involvement, you are estranged and that is not changing. He needs to go home not near family who want nothing to do with him.
It feels mean but it will save you angst and anger later on. Believe me hospitals deal with this shit every day, be firm that you are not his next of kin.
Don't fall into the trap of being kept up to date that will lead to your involvement.
I remember the hospital phoning me as dad said I would be at his home to take care of him. I laughed I don't even live in UK! When told, dad said, well she will have to come home if I need help!! He had some lovely carers who dealt professionally with the double incontinence, falls, stroppy demanding behaviour. He was in hospital when he passed so not alone.
You need to remind yourself that your dad would not help you if the situation was reversed.

Edited to say: I stopped lying to save my parents embarrassment. I told hospital, neighbours, carers how abusive they were as parents, my childhood was not nice. You will be surprised how many of them have experienced similar but we are taught never to talk about it, mostly due to shame. We have to stop feeling ashamed because it is not our fault our parents were useless, we were just children.

Sorry, a late update...so he stayed in hospital for almost 3 weeks, not really sure why, since then has been staying with his friend. They are both annoyed with the situation, both message me regularly complaining about the other, but neither are doing anything about it. All suggestions to Dad, he has reasons not to do it so I and my brothers have taken a step back and are letting him and his friend get on with it. He texts and calls constantly, we're talking 30 messages a day. I've muted notifications now. It's a ridiculous situation and it's entirely of his own making but we can't help him until he wants to help himself. We've visited a few times but it's a 5 hour round trip so we can't do it often. He comes up with these madcap ideas such as living on a boat, then a static caravan, then pitching a tent somewhere....he has so much time on his hands to have all these crazy ideas but frustratingly, not to sort anything reasonable and practical. I suspect he's hoping one of us will offer to have him to stay but we're standing firm on that. It's relentless and draining and has contributed to me being ill for the last few weeks. My mental health is suffering and I can't believe we've been put in this situation. He's always been a shit, selfish dad, I guess some things never change!

If he's been staying in a rural area or an island then it can be difficult to access care - particularly if incomers have forced up the housing prices to make the area unaffordable for low paid workers like carers.

Healthcare can also be difficult to access if you can't drive and are reliant on public transport - even if you can drive then the ferry network isn't particularly reliable right now. If the ferries are running fine then it's still long round trips for hospital appointments.

Retiring to an island sounds great but there are many practical issues involved.

@YouSayTomatoISayTomato take care of yourself. Do anything you can to destress.
You're doing the right thing.

Has he got dementia? It’s the only excuse for phoning so much.
You are doing great, it’s such good news that both you and DB are in agreement on approach. Keep firm. If his calls aren’t due to mental decline, then it may tail off once he realises you are never taking him in.

It's funny, a colleague asked this too. It's possible?! Having not spoken to the hospital or his doctors, we have no idea. He is very very selfish and always has been, so there's no change there, but he has so many different ideas about what he wants to do, I don't know if that's him being wildly optimistic, or losing his grip on reality?! Taking him.in is absolutely not an option for any of us, not even offering to have him for a night to give his friend a break - logistically it would be a nightmare anyway as he doesn't have his own transport despite sending multiple links to cars he wants to buy! It's exhausting and never ending.

he has so many different ideas about what he wants to do
Don't be fooled by all that, it is chucking spaghetti at the wall hoping something sticks. He is trying to get you to engage, ramping it up to get a reaction, to wangle his way in get a conversation started about his future. Ignore all the nonsense because that's what it is, he is trying to wear you down and take him in.
You owe him nothing, probably time to block his number as it is making you ill.

Yeah this is true, he's trying all sorts to get us to cave. He then goes into emotional blackmail which also doesn't work, but the relentlessness is so tiring! I reply to certain messages and not to others, don't answer his random calls unless it's convenient Just to try to minimise contact. I don't think I can block him, I'd feel too bad, but I can have any contact on my terms, I think that's the best I can do for now.

You can only do what is right for you, stick to your guns. I will say from experience guilt was easier to handle than resentment, resentment would have eaten me alive, I loathed my mother. I felt guilty that my parents were old, frail and miserable when I went NC but after a few months I rarely thought of them. It is time you can't get back, I wasn't prepared to waste another second on my selfish parents. My siblings had 12 years of it, it broke them.
When they died I had already dealt with all the anger and hurt, so their passing was just a relief in the end. Makes me sound heartless but nothing compared to how I was treated as a child and adult.

My dad was a bit like this. He turned up in my town having claimed family connection to me and was given sheltered housing.

At least he didn't turn up expecting to live with me though.

A few years later he decided to move near to my brother and did the same thing with him.

I wonder if he could get a social services referral for a vulnerable adult or something but remember you said he's got a property

Have you said in so many words that you won't be letting him stay / live with you? Have your siblings? Or are you all just dodging messages and avoiding the question?

Sympathy OP.
IME rational thinking can be affected adversely by bad health (not always but I have seen it a few times). But it is what it is.
You're far enough away that I can't see much downside in muting him however you can, and only checking and replying to messages once a day, at a time which suits you.

Maybe you need to send him a message telling him he can't stay with you but will need to contact e.g social services for support, if he needs help with that to let you know?

I wouldn't count out so social housing just because other posters said he won't get it.

In our area the criteria is :-
Resident in area long term
or
Working in the area long term
or
Local connection through close relative (children, parents)

Whether there is any housing available is a different question, but it might be worth getting him on the list if he's sure he wants to stay.

I agree, sorry if I misled by mentioning his home. It might just mean it is considered in the finances.

Also I wondered if any of this might help

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/worried-about-someone/

I'm sorry for your experience and it doesn't make you sound heartless at all. It resonates with me though- when my dad was living hundreds of miles away, he rarely crossed my mind and he didn't make much contact. I would have been happy for things to stay like that!

Somewhere like Citizens advice bureau is good for this matter.