How can we encourage them to accept help in the home from outside agencies?

[charliehungerford]

My 89 & 90year old PIL live independently at home three hours drive from us. They have lived there for the past 60 years. They have both deteriorated mentally and physically over the past 18 months and the family agree that some help is needed at home. The house needs cleaning properly, and food dates need checking as they eat food well past safe dates. I’ve done some research and we have found an agency that has pretty good reviews, that could provide a ‘home help’ type service to assist with cleaning etc. Unfortunately they are not in agreement and think they don’t need any help. They accuse my SIL of wanting to put them in a home, when we try to explain that we are endeavouring to do the opposite, and that if they want to stay at home they need some help to keep them safe. Do any wise people out there have any suggestions on how we can gently persuade them that this is a good idea. Part of their reluctance is the cost, but they have excellent pensions and savings and cost is not an issue, they are just very reluctant to spend any money, to the extent my almost totally deaf FIL will put up with his condition rather than pay for someone to visit to syringe his ears, a procedure he happily had done previously when it was ‘free’ from the NHS. It’s very frustrating, we just want to keep them safe and at home as long as possible, but the situation is now becoming dangerous, I found four week old eggs and two week old rice in the fridge when I last visited them.

There is nothing you can do really if they have capacity. I work with older people and help them to claim Attendance Allowance . They often get the top rate £110 a week and still won't pay out for anything like carers, cleaners , gardeners etc instead squirrelling it away having thousands and thousands stashed away and still won't pay for any help. They say it's for a rainy day but never acknowledge that that rainy day has come. It's really frustrating.

Do they think they need no help at all? Or do they acknowledge they need help but want family to do it?

Thanks for replying, they have no issue with us helping, but we are a three hour drive from them, and their other children are overseas. Each visit requires an overnight stay in an hotel, with associated costs, which is not feasible more than every month or so due to my DH part time job. They seem to think that if any ‘strangers’ come to the house they’ll refer them to Social Services. We’ve tried to explain that SS have more important things to deal with. All the family moved away from their area over 30 years ago, so it’s not as if it’s come as a surprise that they are on their own, they don’t have friends in the area, and are very suspicious of their lovely neighbours who try to help. They have made no provision for their old age, unsuitable house over a mile from the nearest shop, no facility for a downstairs bedroom, unmanageable garden that they won’t pay anyone to take care of. I think they know deep down that things are not good, but they won’t acknowledge it.

@charliehungerford you have come to the right place here so I will welcome you to the club nobody wants to be in. Stubborn elderly parents. You have my utmost sympathy. It’s such a worry but unfortunately as you will probably know you cannot make them do anything they do not want to and if they are deemed to have capacity they are free to continue making their own decisions-even poor ones.

Agree. This is my parents too, mega wealthy but won’t put the heating on, eat out of date food to the point that one of them was violently ill over Xmas. Won’t accept any outside help and claim the top rate of AA too. House needs a good clean as well. But will happily transfer me thousands several times a year.

My parents are like this. It has helped (very slightly) to sell it to them as professional services rather than "care" or "home help". So they've been willing to get a gardener and regular ready meal delivery from Cook albeit not a cleaner yet. Anything that sounds like care is a no go even though they need it (dad has dementia). House totally unsuitable (loads of steps to access both front and back door) and we're heading for crisis as one of them is bound to fall sooner or later and become housebound.

Here's hoping I'll be more pragmatic in my dotage.

SS can’t make them do anything they don’t want if they’re adults with capacity.

Which parent is more of a blocker? We thought it was my Dad but it was actually my Mum. I would divide and conquer when you talk to them. With DadI would remind him that men tend to die before women and he needs to put things in place for when Mum is on her own.

I had to deal with this with an elderly relative . Patiently explained that the alternative was looking at a Care home as I could not live with the uncertainty of their safety .
For the first few times of carers and cleaners visit I was there to supervise, ask their opinions as to what they wanted such as shower on Friday or what day . Shopping , need cooking , laundry . Most carers are used to dealing with new clients and will appreciate your guidance . Same with the garden , took him outside to decide what he wanted . It gave him a measure of control and then he liked the idea that they were his employees and would be guided by him. Worked well left me free to take him out occasionally which I pointed out couldn't happen if I was cleaning bathrooms or shopping.

Suggest something temporary and if you can get to ‘maybe…’ then set it up pronto. To be fair, dp’s mum was absolutely right that she didnt need a live in carer, it only lasted 3 weeks. After that she happily accepted a daily care visit and that has been successful.

If you can’t beat them, join them. Get a bit bossier, a bit more unreasonable and a bit more emotionally blackmailing. ‘God, Dad, I actually couldn’t sleep last night thinking about your fridge. You’re a mule and it’s unbearable. I’ve got acid reflux thinking about it, let me just take my tablets. No it’s ok, I’m under the doctor for investigations. Just let me sort out a cleaner, I can’t believe that you’re behaving exactly like Grandad. No I’m just upset’ [tears]

@PermanentTemporary that made me smile. Playing them at their own game indeed 🤣

Sounds like a nightmare. Sorry. Maybe you could set up a meeting with the agency? Say someone you know used them and said they were v helpful? Say it will be helping you? Just trying to think about breaking down the mindset. Ask them what they will spend money on? Madness to be saving it! This is the rainy day

Can you show up to visit with a cleaner? So you say “I’m coming to help and Jane (the cleaner) is here to help me.” Then you introduce Jane to the parents and the house. When the cleaning is done, you praise Jane and ask if she can come next week.

I’m trying to get my parents to get a cleaner, just a normal one and that’s being rejected, again not money connected, my siblings don’t expect anything to be left to us and have made it clear

Thanks everyone for your comments. We may have to try a bit of emotional blackmail. I think so many people ignore the fact that they are going to get older and with that comes the inability to manage everything themselves, so many stories of not making any provision for their future. My DH and I are already thinking about how we want to live when we are older, and we’re not even at state retirement age yet.

I'm at an age now where I'm out the other side of this, but my friends and I had similar problems when our parents were at that age. Their independence becomes entirely dependent on you. The pressure and worry for you becomes a constant problem and, possibly the worst part is, you don't know how long this will last and there is no good way out of it.

Things that worked in my experience and that of my friends -

Sad to say, but waiting for a crisis to occur. A hospital admission, a fall - then go in very forecefully with a 'You need help, this is what we're going to do or things will go to rack and ruin'.

Start small. I worked as a gardener and often it was the daughter of an elderly person who would employ me. The parents started seeing work getting done by a smiley lady who came in for a couple of hours a week and was happy to help about the place. They'd make me tea, we'd have a chat, I'd help them turn their mattress or play with their dog, It wsn't like I was a carer - I was a cheery employee. Then the daughter would brinig in a cleaner, a home visiting hair dresser, a man to do the guttering etc. Soon the parents had a happy little army of helpers around who were more like friends and family to them than they imagined they would be. (the first person you employ will be used to this situation and will have a raft of contacts you can tap into).

Gang up. Don't let your parents play sibling off against sibling. Have a party line and all stick with it.

Lastly, I would say, constantly remember your own boundaries. You can only live your own life. If your parents won't spend on themselves then that is up to them. You could have a decade or more of this. Do not lose it entirely to them. I mean that kindly honestly.

I did this with late DM. Old people become in in incredibly selfish as they age.

Cannot see anyone else’s point of view but don’t seem to have an issue if YOU do something even though you might live 100’s of miles away. It probably goes without saying that the houses some elderly people live in have not been touched for years and cleaning is something that is rarely done.

issue I had was that Mum would outright lie and not do what I suggested. She then fell and guess who was called. In fact the whole county seemed to have my mobile and email at one point. She gave it out to everyone…..

Problem I had was the agency who had great reviews wasn’t that great. I was 100 miles away and Mum kept cancelling what I had asked them to do. The lazy carer didn’t report this back and Mum never said.

On reflection I should have been firmer. Asked the agency to report back if Mum was cancelling jobs to be done.

I did end up guilt tripping Mum. Two can play at the game as another PP says.

Mum wasn’t always like this and lived independently for years but became anxious and panicked at the slightest thing in later years. Siblings lived abroad and washed their hands of her. Pretended that they didn’t get her phone call until all sorted (by me!)

I got mine a "gardener" who was specifically employed to gradually offer more and more support such as shopping etc.

You have my sympathies OP it's bloody frustrating and stressful when they won't accept help or acknowledge their frailty.

We had very similar with my parents after my mum was ill and needed help. I'm afraid in the end we just organised things for them - it was all quite slow & gradual but we basically sorted it all out, told them how wonderful it would be and then instructed how & when to pay.

We asked around locally and found them a local angel/cleaner/housekeeper + - someone there for cleaning plus paid extra for housekeeping jobs, having a cuppa and being our local eyes & ears - she's amazing and will sort the fridge, putting a wash on, call one of us if either looks off colour or something attention. but to my parents she is just the cleaner rather than help. We met her for chat & home inspection, agreed date & time and just told Dad how much to leave out for her in an envelope each week (plus we all clubbed together to pay a enerous xmas bonus as we'd be lost without her) . Considering how resistant they were, they have actually really done well and now look forward to the weekly chat, cuppa and company plus house clean. If you can't find someone locally on recommendation, there are agencies that offer this type of service,

Ditto cooked meals - we paid for and sent a delivery of those posh ready meals and once they found a couple they liked, we set them up with a delivery service and my dad was happy to pay for this.

Withdraw. No help, no visits.

I bought my mum a deep clean for any room for her birthday. It was organised through a local cleaner who knew I was trying to persuade dm to have a weekly cleaner.

DM insisted on 'supervising', and the cleaner deserved a halo for putting up with her, but it worked and got her through the door, at first to do a deep clean on each room over the next two months, and then a weekly tidy up.

Been there done that. You’ll never persuade them. The only way is to step back, stop propping up the situation and let a crisis develop. See less of them if necessary. PIL lived with a cross that bridge mentality, until they needed help and were then straight on the phone day and night. It left a very unpleasant legacy.
Agree with pp about attendance allowance. MIL got nearly £450 a week ‘non means tested!’ and just added it to the hundreds of thousands she already had in the bank. All wrong.

You can’t. You just have to let them get on with it. Unless they both lack capacity or one is vulnerable and the others actions are putting the vulnerable one in danger, there’s nothing at all that can be done.

Horrible thing to say but you have to let them get on with it, something will eventually go wrong and only then are they likely to admit defeat and accept help.

Don't fill the gap yourself though or you'll end up visiting every weekend.

We’ve had that exact problem. Our experience is that it’s not possible until there’s a crisis that makes them literally helpless.