Is this 'normal'' for 75?

[SnugglyJumpersMakeItBetter]

I'm starting to get concerned about my dad's cognitive state, but I'm not sure where the line is between 'normal senior moments' and 'cause for concern'. This Christmas he's:

Mistaken the picture on the advent calendar for Hot Cross Buns, rather than mince pies

Mixed up the dates thinking it was the 17th rather than the 21st. We were celebrating my sister's birthday, belatedly. Her birthday was on the 19th.

Told me 'Happy Birthday' rather than 'Happy Christmas' on Christmas morning

Told me a story about a deer jumping in front of the car earlier that day. I was in the car with him.

He's just turned 75. This really isn't right is it?

The deer story is the only one that would concern me.

The hot cross buns might be an eyesight problem or slip of the tongue. Similarly, the Happy Birthday. (I recall doing similar when I was only in my 40s.)

Was there actually a deer? If so, Dad momentarily forgetting that you were there with him wouldn't necessarily be a sign of dementia. I remember as a child starting to tell my mum about something that had happened in church and then remembering that she'd been there too.

Now that I'm retired and don't have to keep track of dates, it's not uncommon to mix up my days - I've checked with other retirees and this seems to be pretty much universal.

Not sure but sounds like my mum of late who's 73 and otherwise fine. Will tell me the same story a few times and will argue with me about things that have or haven't happened. Eg when I asked if my auntie was popping in on Christmas Eve to exchange presents and have a cup of tea she said 'no, not on Christmas Eve, everyone is far too busy for that.' I said that auntie has popped in on Christmas Eve for as long as I can remember, and mum swore blind that this has never happened.

I don’t know what’s worse:

my elderly aunt sent me a birthday card instead of a Christmas card this week.

I didn’t notice until it was pointed out to me by DH…

I think that’s generally natural old age type thing.

If doesn't matter about other 75 year olds, if this is out of the ordinary for him then it is worth getting checked.

A GP won't mind and if it flags an issue there are many causes, some of which are easily fixed and even if there is a chance of dementia there re still things that can be done where earlier action is best.

I think it would depend on what happens when he does these things.

I agree with others that 'Happy Birthday' could be a slip of the tongue; mistaking mince pies for hot cross buns the same - or an eyesight issue; getting confused about dates isn't that odd. Even the deer story could just be a glitch from a previous morning.

But what happens when you correct him? Does he seem confused? Or was he over-compensating in a way that makes you think he's trying to hide confusion?

No, I don't think it's normal for 75.

The dates wouldn't bother me too much, I often have to think hard about the date (I'm a few years younger than your dad).

But the rest of it would worry me. There are too many things slipping to ignore it.

The hot cross buns would not be an eyesight problem, because even if his eyesight was iffy, his cognitive faculties should tell him hot cross buns don't feature on an advent calendar.

And if you mean he said a deer ran in front of the car, but you were there too and it didn't happen, that definitely not 'just an old age thing'. Even if that did once happen to him, he thought it happened yesterday and it didn't.

You could take him to the GP, and they may refer him to the memory clinic. But all that does is provide you with an answer, it won't change anything sadly.

😆😆😆

Apologies OP - just realised my above post might be taken as insensitive given the nature of this thread.

All very normal apart from the deer. Did you ask him where he got that from?

I think once someone’s in their mid 70s it is hard to tell what’s what. Many of my mother’s friends have remained totally sharp and fairly energetic well into their 80s, but my mother became a bit vague and confused and not quite herself in her early-mid 70s - not helped by retirement, followed immediately by lockdown, followed shortly by bereavement and drinking too much, so the picture was very complex.

But underlying all of this she had heart failure with ‘atypical’ (i.e. female) symptoms - which meant that over time she had less and less oxygen perfusion to the brain, and was consequently more fatigued and foggy and anxious and periodically confused. 80% of the time she’d be absolutely herself but now and again she’d have strange lapses of memory or understanding.

There were also gradual changes to her body language and facial expressions. By the last few years of her life she couldn’t look at people straight on, but would angle her body away, and peer back at them with a blank and slightly suspicious look. She struggled to smile convincingly - it was more like baring her teeth.

Since none of her symptoms were obvious to anyone who didn’t know her extremely well, doctors insisted she was fine, until she very suddenly died of cardiac arrest.

My uneducated hunch is that ‘age related’ cognitive decline often comes from an undiagnosed or poorly managed chronic health problem, which may or may not contribute to the development of dementia down the line.

The trouble is IME most doctors aren’t very interested in helping anyone get to the bottom of an older person’s health problems unless and until they’re imminently life-threatening by which point there’s not a lot anyone can do to preserve quality of life.

Encourage your dad to get a health MOT checking out cardiac and respiratory and metabolic function. Plus sort any cataracts, get hearing tested.

I spent a long time in the limbo you’re in, not knowing how to understand the changes in my mum’s functioning, and it is difficult and very preoccupying. Here’s hoping it’s just a symptom of holiday overwhelm and being out of routine rather than anything more complicated. Take care of yourself.

And if you mean he said a deer ran in front of the car, but you were there too and it didn't happen, that definitely not 'just an old age thing'. Even if that did once happen to him, he thought it happened yesterday and it didn't.

I'd interpreted that as that it did happen, but there was no need for him to tell the OP because she was with him at the time - but perhaps I'm wrong.

That's right, it did happen, and obviously we all exclaimed at talked it over for some minutes afterwards. I was too stunned to say anything when he told me the story, about an hour later.

The dates thing I'd be less concerned if it wasn't that we were celebrating a belated birthday, so he ought to have known it was later than the 19th at least.

The Hot Cross Buns, again, could have been passed off as a slip of the tongue except he repeated it 3 times for my mum, who's getting hard of hearing.

It's interesting what you say about heart failure Voltaire - his father had 2 heart attacks and his brother died from one, so cardiac issues certainly run in his family. He's been looking very pale and yawning a lot,/looking a bit quiet and zoned-out, but then maybe that's a normal part of aging too? He still gets up at 6:30 and goes to bed at 10:30 as he always has done, so maybe he needs more sleep? Being tired is naturally going to lead to brain fog and confusion isn't it?

I'm not quite sure if I should say anything or not. I don't know. I'm tempted to have a word with him but I don't want to scare him unnecessarily. It would be really upsetting for him to think he's losing it. I guess I'll just wait and see if there are any more signs? Thanks for your replies everyone!

@SnugglyJumpersMakeItBetter If you can get him to a GP and have a full MOT e.g. test vitamin & mineral levels, full blood count, UTI etc. This can rule out a lot of things that are relatively simple to resolve.

If it is the start of cognitive decline then a diagnosis does allow for early interventions.

I'm not concerned about any of it really except the deer thing, but even here, was he just repeating the story to you for something to talk about, knowing full well you were there? I know someone who has always done that, even when she was in her 30's, she's now mid 80's and this is normal for her. She knows you were there but she still wants to recount it as if she's telling you something, really just wants to relive it and talk about something. Did he just want to recount the story for something to talk about again?

If he cannot remember that you were with him I think that's of some concern, but that doesn't mean he's going to deteriorate, dementia is very individual in how it plays out, depending on type and depending on the person.

I'm not concerned with the hot cross buns unless all the pictures were really obviously christmassy ones. To him it was just a picture? May have not made the connection that they are supposed to be christmas pictures even though he knew it was an advent calendar.

The birthday dates, it's not unusual for older people to forget or not focus on the date, just the birthday, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Saying 'happy birthday' could be a slip of the tongue, did he correct it? Slightly concerning, would have to have more slip ups to know on that.

Urine infections can knock an older person for six and cause confusion in them even when they definitely don't have dementia, so it's important to know this going forward (even if not something you'd ask about now). I've known elderly people develop sepsis from a urine infection and the family thought they'd suddenly developed dementia.

But back to your concerns, overall I'd say a lot of this might just be being a lot older than you. Details become less important (been there, done it) and that's normal (hot cross buns example). But you're right to keep a check on this.

I would encourage him to get a blood test etc, just suggest it as an MOT. I wouldn't yet speak to him about your concerns. From what you say it may still be nothing, and if it is something developing, maybe he doesn't have to be worried about it just yet. But if you later become sure there's something wrong, then it may be worth getting him checked by a GP as there are medications now that can slow cognitive decline down. I hope all is ok though.

You really need to encourage him to see his G.p. Many physical conditions contribute to forgetfulness etc. Low iron can cause extreme tiredness. Try to present it as an M.o.T. or. Routine.
If there is something sinister, early diagnosis is crucial to a good outcome.

@SnugglyJumpersMakeItBetter my mother was very pale as her heart failure progressed - her skin looked grey, and after a lifetime of being a nut brown sun worshipper it was quite a marked difference. Also her face became very puffy, particularly around her eyes. If there’s heart disease in your dad’s family it would be a very good idea to get him checked out - in particular get his BNP levels checked as that is a marker for heart failure.

People can live a good while with a good quality of life if heart failure is treated properly.