It begins.

[GetOffTheRoof]

Parents are approx 70 (DM) and 73 (DF). DM has had hip and knee replacement, femur pinned and has broken just about every bone there is due to osteoporosis.

DF had has one hip done and is awaiting the second. He's barely able to walk the length of the living room unaided.

Both mentally fine, a little forgetful tbh, especially DF but I suspect it's pain related as he's exhausted by the pain all the time.

I live over 700 miles away, they moved away over 20 years ago. DB is over 200 miles from them.

I've just discovered via DF accidentally letting it slip that DM no longer cooks because she apparently can't stand at the cooker long enough. DF is an "adventurous" chef and is not to be trusted with food combinations or have any sense of portion control, so I worry for them both for the longer term if he's taking over....

DM is an ex nurse and a stubborn pfffft. DF is very much a stubborn old goat but I can usually manage him. Not so DM. She's apparently turning into my granny who was housebound and barely moved from her armchair for the last 20 years of her life.

This is the beginning of it all, isn't it?

They are in a bungalow, both are sufficiently tech savvy not to need me to sort things like phones or computers thank god, both have good pensions so money isn't a big area of concern around carers, they have a cleaner, both can drive although DM won't go much further than the next town and DF does all the distance - they were down here a few months ago for example. Both have mobility scooters including lighter (but still heavy!) ones that go in the car.

I suppose I'm just venting a bit. DM is an ex nurse, she retired as a District Nurse Sister so has always said she didn't want us to be her carers which we couldn't anyway due to distance. But she's refusing things like a perching still to help her in the kitchen 🤦.

No idea where to go from here!

All related whinging very welcome.

If you can gradually increase care, up the cleaners, look into meal options? Those frozen ones are good, or Cook is a good brand.

in having a bungalow and each other they are in a good place

Don't worry too much. There's nothing you can do. Suggest they have those ready meals delivered, then you just put them in the oven/micro.

Actually Cook might be great for when dad has his hip done in a few weeks. Will suggest it.

I'm frustrated because it's such a sudden thing and I'm astonished at mum refusing to help herself on this one.

I think being so far away is going to be harder that I'd expected, but I'd also expected a few years yet before we had to confront this sort of nonsense!

This is quite scary. When I looked at the “ elderly “ heading I didn’t expect to see a post about people of my age whom I would expect to be living a full and active life . Unfortunately you need to let them make their own decisions about how they live their lives. They are young enough and have mental capacity and may make a poor decision but should learn from it and make adjustments to allow them to live independently. I expect you are the age of my DC’s and have your own family to care for and put first. Give advice when asked but don’t go down the slippery slope of driving up and down the country to enable them. If they want to move closer to you then this would be a sensible step and they may need assistance with the moving process but at the end of the day it is their choice how and where they live their lives. Sounds harsh but you need to put your Dc’s first.

It’s always a shock when you realise that your DP are actually getting frail and a little vulnerable.

Have you spoken to them about getting Health and Finance POA in place and do they have Wills?

For now it sounds as though Wiltshire Farm Foods might be an option with the food, even if it’s not every day.

I think I would also talk to them about if they’re willing to move to a retirement village, preferably closer to you or your DB. The one near to us has a gym, hairdressers, coffee shop and restaurant and is on a main bus route do it’s easy to go out.

Perching stools are crap.

i’m not elderly but I am disabled and they really don’t help much.
persinally I chop things at the kitchen table sitting in my wheelchair and cook mostly from my wheelchair.

Agree - they are so bloody young, but they both retired young due to mental health (stressful jobs) so have been sat about for the last 20 years or so. Medically they are a mess.

No DC on my side, but they buggered off back to the other end of the country knowing we kids wouldn't follow. We have our own lives, mortgages, responsibilities. I cannot nip 700 miles to help them out unless we preplan it, and they must know that.

It's also why I'm planning my retirement for age 60 - medical genetics are not on my side, if I want to enjoy travel etc I need to be doing it when I'm young and fit enough!!

I asked about POA a while ago and it was brushed away. They have done wills reasonably recently.

They will not move to England again, they'll want to stay in Scotland (unless the SNP get in again and independence goes through). I absolutely do NOT want them to move closer to either of us tbh, it would be a nightmare for whoever they land on.

Has your DM had an OH referral yet @GetOffTheRoof?

Totally understand! Neither of them needs a wheelchair yet - hopefully dad will be much more mobile by Xmas, but mum has not subscribing to the "use it or lose it" model unfortunately.

I've mentioned this this week. Dad will get a visit again post hip replacement no 2, but I think they would do better to pay someone privately to come in and look at the whole house.

Do you ask her what her plans are then? My DM is a retired Nurse and is also very stubborn. She too has been very reluctant to keep up her fitness, it must be even harder for your DM with Oestoporosis.

We have talked to her about it though avd said tgat if she wants to keep on doing the things she enjoys, she does need to keep walking. She’s not brilliant but does manage a walk each day.

I think it’s an assessment by an Occupational Therapist that they need. As neither are in work Occupational Health is irrelevant.

@Muchtoomuchtodo dont worry, I understood!

Sorry I’m a sod for getting those two mixed up

Interesting. I have a tiny kitchen (no table) and used a perching stool when I had a hip replacement. Found it helpful for cooking etc.

Hi,

My parents moved to live close to me at about this stage and it actually wasn't quite so bad. I was really worried that a whole lot of work would fall to me, but in practise I just couldn't do it. I mean I'm up to my eyes in kids, but even so, I couldn't psychologically face up to doing personal care for my parents. I told them that and they understood.

I do think it is easier having them close by tbh. I mean there are a few very small things that I can manage to do and it is easier to do those things if they are close by.

For example my DM has just gone into a care home and in the first weeks after she went in, my DF used to visit her in the morning and then come and sit in my garden for a cuppa afterwards. It wasn't a hugely taxing responsibility for me, but I think it made a very very big difference to him.

Also having them close does take a lot of worry off my shoulders, because I know that if push came to shove, they are only ten minutes up the road. One time my DM fell and broke a bone and I did actually saddle up and go and help out. I only made hot water bottles while we waited for the ambulance, but I think it helped a bit and it was much less alarming than getting phone calls from 800 miles away to say that the you-know-what had hit the fan, with no further information.

After a while of being here, my Dad copped on to the fact that I can't handle seeing my Mum very frail and he just handled it himself at the end. He got very efficient at calling ambulances, which seemed to happen with increasing frequency. I think he hid a lot from me because he learned that if he told me then he would just end up handling me freaking out as well. My brother has been very helpful, because he doesn't freak out as much as me. But then sometimes when things were very hard he would put my Mum on the phone to me and I could work minor miracles on her.

The fiddly bit is when the more able parent has to go into hospital, leaving the more frail one at home. That's when it really gets complicated. You need to have a back-up plan for that. Either the frail one needs to be settled with doing day visits to a care home, or you need a good carer visiting regularly. Either way if you have the flexibility for that to turn into a week long 24/7 arrangement at fairly short notice, it helps a great deal.

The other thing that was odd for me was that when the moved from being 800 miles away to being ten minutes up the road, I found that I was still much happier talking to them on the phone. It had been 30 years since I left home and I just couldn't seem to switch to talking face to face very well. So after they moved here, I carried on phoning every day, and that has been my main job really. So it wasn't so hugely different, but just felt much safer, iykwim.

The moving was mildly complicated because they swore they wouldn't move for about ten years, but then suddenly announced at zero notice that it was time to do it. I had been fretting about it for years, and had researched all the local villages, so I was able to find they perfect house at 9 days notice, so that was lucky.

Sorry, I know it is difficult and I wish you all the luck in the world with it. I hope some of what I've said helps a bit. It's like having teenagers really. Good luck there.

Gosh poor you, they are young to have such physical issues. And yes been there with the - we don’t want you to be our carer/be a burden - whilst simultaneously doing or paying out for nothing that would make their life any more tolerable.

The one benefit I would say of them being in Scotland is that if they are deemed to need carers these are free. If you can encourage them to apply for attendance allowance that kind of gets them in the system if bigger issues develop. Certainly for the area my DPs are in they seem to have received excellent service provision from many sources ( obviously they turn some of it away and complain bitterly when the timing of DMs free carers is not exactly what they would like it to be).

I would say try not to sweat the small stuff. As long as they are eating it doesn’t really matter what it is as long as they are both ok with it, ditto with house cleanliness as long as it’s not unhygienic. Sadly I would also harden your heart a bit. They have made choices through the years that have contributed to their present state. They are unlikely to listen to reasonable suggestions on how to make their lives easier until there is a crisis. Your job is just to wait for the inevitable crisis. I would try not to worry about it if you can, as it’s generally different than what you expect.

Sorry it’s all a bit shit really.

That was all a bit negative. So here’s a few positive points I have picked up from your OP. They have a cleaner already- that’s excellent as means they are already used to having someone supporting them in the house. Means it isn’t such a big leap if they need to up the persons hours to support with cooking etc. or get someone else in.
Secondly they aren’t averse to some aids such as the mobility scooters, again hugely positive and shows that being out and about is important to them.
Thirdly sounds like all their ailments are physical rather than mental decline at the moment. Means you should be able to reason with them. I would try and encourage your DM to keep going out in some capacity, my DM has osteoporosis and I think lack of social interaction caused by double whammy of lockdown and reduced/painful mobility has caused dementia to accelerate.

DM plans to stay in the house and stick DF in a home 😂

So Xmas was OK. DF is mentally stronger now he's in far less pain, so that's a good start.

DM CAN stand, just doesn't want to. And on reflection, not being bothered about cooking a massive meal every night after 50 years of doing it for your family is pretty reasonable. The freezer is filled with decent food, so they are eating OK, just combinations I wouldn't want ie a chicken Kiev with vegetable flavoured rice, but if they enjoy it then who cares.

However DF has become a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and even I bit back at him after a few days of constant whinging and throwaway remarks about absolutely everything he has decided is a problem. But we do flash like that regularly anyway.

I have also told DH that I give myself permission NOT to fix everything for them and to remind me that I am not responsible for their health or happiness.

They have a bigger joint income than we do from four pensions, plus the Scottish equivalent of attendance allowance so can afford to pay for anything they need, want or just fancy. Their only major outgoing is the gas bill because DM keeps the house at about 24c.....

They’re only in their early 70’s my God! Don’t they know how to have fun and enjoy retirement? Are you sure they’re not depressed? They’re way to young for this…

They’re only in their early 70’s my God! Don’t they know how to have fun and enjoy retirement? Are you sure they’re not depressed? They’re way to young for this…

They have both been retired for over 20 years now after sick health retirements in their 50s. They did the round the world trip and ran a couple of small businesses and moved house several times etc.

DF would like to do more but his body stops him. DM is quite happy to sit on the sofa like her DM also did.... She's never been as adventurous as him. I don't think either of them are depressed these days although lack of vitamin D could be a factor for all I know.

If they live in Scotland, and don't go away from the sofa much, guaranteed they are Vit D deficient.

Your DM might be on supplements as she has had so many fractures, but they aren't always enough.