Elderly PIL

[WinterNightStars]

Just after thoughts / advice really. DH is an only one & we live 2hr drive away - forced move due to redundancy 20+ years ago. We both still work, have our own health probs. Our adult DC live in same area as us. With the best will in the world we can’t be there daily or possibly even weekly & it’s a real concern what the future will bring.
PIL are in their 80’s, live in bungalow, no outside help as yet. Neither are particularly well, MIL especially is very up & down. Neither would cope on their own if something happened to the other.
They like the area we live in & have spent a lot of leisure time around here. It would obviously be a huge upheaval if they were to move but both can see the positives of it in that we would be closer, able to help out, especially when one is on their own.
Just interested in experiences & perspectives of those in a similar position. How did you balance the long distance & caring with still working etc.
Thanks in advance.

My sister and I have to do this with our mother, who is in her nineties, partially sighted, hearing and mobility impaired. My sister lives about 1.5 hours away and I live almost 3 hours away.

My mother has to have carers three (sometimes four) times a day, which she self funds. It's the only way as we just cannot be there enough. My sister visits each weekend for a few hours and I visit for a long weekend (Friday to Monday) usually every three weeks. We take her to do her shopping while we are there and if for any reason we just can't do it she gives a list to one of her carers.

My mother has no wish to move from her house. That's fine for now because it is a bungalow so all on one level. The only steps are a couple of small ones getting in and out and she only does those if someone is there guiding her. She wants to stay there surrounded by her memories of my Dad, who died 4 years ago. It does have a sizeable garden which she has to pay a gardener to do, and her care company also provides cleaners.

It's expensive, but there's no choice and we are fortunate that she can afford it.

If they are willing to move, that's a plus as many older people aren't. So I'd look at moving them ASAP, into a bungalow or even sheltered housing near you, which will make the next few years a lot easier. Get a place that will still work as they become more limited in what they do.

Thank you for your replies. They are in a bungalow with just one step so that’s good. They have a small garden, mostly gravel, & FIL can manage this. FIL still drives, MIL can if needed but tbh I doubt how safe she is on the roads. MIL is very breathless & struggles with cleaning, cooking etc. She was in hosp recently & I cooked for FIL, froze meals, reminded him re meds etc. Between them they muddle along but obviously we’re concerned as they age, potentially one is on their own. LPA is in place & they have stated in this they would be open to moving closer for care home, & would like remain in own home as long as poss. Remaining in their own home would be easier & more likely to be a viable option if they were closer. They seem open to it, & have said they should’ve done it 10 years ago but it’s an upheaval. There are good options round here but I’m not sure they’ll actually do it & it’s a worry with the distance if they stay where they are.

I personally found that my mum moving after 80 was really unsuccessful, it was too much change, although it would have helped a lot if she’d been moving as a couple. Having said that, it is a huge relief that she is in a care home near me now.

So to me, the plan of staying where they are with various bits of support, and only moving when they’ve reached the care home stage, is a good one, or as good as things get. Don’t think there is a perfect solution, there probably isn’t. But just get quite absolute about power of attorney for you - ESSENTIAL if you aren’t on the spot - and accepting outside help - start that sooner than perhaps they strictly need if the money is there, just to get them used to it. Who does big housework jobs like changing the bed linen for example?

I see you’ve got LPA. Phew. Are you set up with a debit card, bank login etc?

The biggest downside is that they have their own social network where they are and are familiar with the area. If they move they have you and no one else.

I nearly killed myself travelling when my mother was ill.
1 hr 50 mins each way but as it involved the M25 sometimes hours longer
She passed away and after a year of me up and down to dad he said he didn’t want to live alone
We found a care home for him in his town. He had his church there and all his friends
I would never have suggested he moved near us.

What @countrygirl99 said. We underestimated this with my mum as she is intensely antisocial but in fact even things like familiar faces at the shop were a significant part of her day.

Absolutely
familiar faces and places are so important

I've live 2.5 hours from my parents since I left home. (Edinburgh to Newcastle so awful roads.)
Mum and dad were great until mid 80s. Mum died very quickly of secondary lung cancer and trying to help was so hard. I also struggled to get time off work as getting cover was so hard. Dad is now 93 still living along in a 3 bed semi with no downstairs loo. He's so isolated and he's on medication for epilepsy which really slows him down. I would love to move him up here but he doesn't want to move. He has a cleaner, I do his shopping on line and he's just very slow mentally and getting slower physically. He can walk to the local shops for a coffee and cake. But when things go wrong at this age they go wrong quickly.
My brother is near London and still working. I'm retired now

If you can get them to move closer do as it's much easier to pop in for a quick visit a few times a week.
This year my brother and I have managed every 5-6 weeks between us.
I have LPA for health and finance and do his banking now so some hurdles being overcome

I'm so glad he has a social life. My dad doesn't. Never went to church. It's a shame as the church saved me from weekend loneliness when I was widowed in my late 40s. Dad's just always been so capable and I struggle watching his decline.

An (older) colleague's widowed MIL lived on the edge of a town, no longer drove, and there weren't many buses. She was increasingly isolated. Colleague (and wife) suggested she move into sheltered housing in the same city as them. It transformed the last decade of her life - she was 2 minutes from the shops, 2 minutes from the theatre, and 2 minutes from church. She had a much improved last few years - so it can work really well

What are their plans for coping as they age? This is what we save for, to buy in help and care as needed and leave our busy adult DC with jobs and families of their own free to live the prime of their lives with minimal burden. Carers, gardeners, cleaners, local handymen, taxis, frozen food deliveries, pharmacy/ online deliveries etc etc. There’s very little help that can’t be bought, leaving you free for emergencies and visits at your convenience.
PIL refused to plan ahead with a ‘cross that bridge’ mentality leading to many crises including SIL hauling a stuck FIL naked out the bath at one point. That was the tip of the iceberg. She ended up on antidepressants. I will not do that to my children, it left a very bitter legacy.

You say that they have said they would be open to moving, but I suspect when it actually comes to it, they won't do it. And I think they would be right not to. As others have said, familiarity of environment is really important, and they live in a bungalow which works for their needs.

My PILs said they wanted to move near us, but after discussing it and looking at places for a while, they got cold feet. It was too much upheaval.

I would look towards supporting them at home with carers if necessary. If they need to move to a care home, that is the point when it would be a good idea for them to move near you.

My parents live 3 hours away. I have been pushing for them to move closer to me for years. DM desperately wanted to move but DF has always been against it.
In the last 4 months, DM’s health has deteriorated & she probably hasn’t got long left😢. DF has been left caring for Mum & doing all the cooking, cleaning & gardening. He now can’t cope. They have been refusing outside help for several months. A difficult situation has been made worse due to the distance. If they had been nearer I could pop round with food, help with shopping etc.
If you think they could cope with the upheaval of moving, I would do it. Even if it means you doing most of the work to move them. If they are not up to it, get a social care assessment as soon as you think they aren’t coping. Maybe get a cleaner & gardener in now. My parents kept refusing help & now we are at crisis point & everything is urgent.

Thanks for all your replies. To answer a few points:
• MIL mentioned moving last time they visited. They spent a lot of time on hols in this area & it holds very special memories for them
• we have POA in place for finance & health but no access to bank cards etc
• they don’t have any help at moment & seem reluctant to accept any until really necessary. Jobs such as changing bed they struggle to do between them but MIL is so out of breath it knackers her for the day.
• they don’t socialise locally, don’t go to church or local shops. They do have Tesco delivery for shopping weekly.
• they have a holiday home a couple of hours from their home but due to their health have been unable to get there much
• we would never force them to move /stay - it has to be their decision but equally if they choose to stay, which is fine, then they need to appreciate that we can’t be at their beck & call. If they do move we are closer, as are 2 adult GD & partners.
• if they do move then we can & would do the leg work to move them, help them to find somewhere etc
• Whilst there are the 2 of them they’re just about coping & we completely understand their desire to remain where they are if that’s what they want.
• We also suspect that they will never actually do it & respect that it’s their choice
• MIL often mentions a friend who’s adult DD moved away & tells us how upset friend was & how it’s difficult without her nearby - we suspect she hasn’t forgiven us for moving as it was a big issue at the time.

Yes I think you are right, they will talk about it but they won't do it. And of course they cannot expect help on tap if you are a distance away.

It is a common story that they will not accept help until they absolutely have to. It would be helpful if you could persuade them to get a cleaner at this stage 'to do things you are finding difficult' (like changing the sheets, or carrying heavy shopping). That is the way I approached it for my mother.

Things will move on and you tend to feel like the sorcerer's apprentice, constantly trying to repair leaky buckets.

I would prioritise them getting a cleaner who will do the heavy work, getting an online login to their bank, getting the POA onto their GP records, and a key safe at their house.

You can’t get access to their bank unless they agree to it or they lose capacity.
You can’t get access to their GP and medical data unless they lose capacity.

Im assuming that you do mean with their permission because we all have a right to privacy

Any chance they could swap their holiday home for one near you? Gives them the option of staying near you without having to bite the bullet of selling their main home at once.

They wouldn’t agree to access to bank / health records unless desperate & that's their choice. They play their cards close to their chest in terms of what they tell us re appts anyway.
Will definitely suggest a cleaner / gardener to them. They’re very reluctant to accept any help or part with their money. They are very comfortable financially so no worries there but won’t spend it.

Their holiday home although a similar distance from their home as we are, is a fairly easy drive on A roads whereas to us it’s predominantly motorway. They don’t like motorway driving. Their health has meant they’ve only had a couple of trips to holiday home this year & they have voiced possibly selling it.
MILs mum moved closer to her for the same reason around 10 years prior to passing away so she’s aware of the difficulties & the difference it made especially whilst MIL was still working herself.
We’ve sent them some links to properties on Rightmove so we’ll see but tbh neither of us think it will happen. It’s a huge upheaval / stress at any age, never mind in your 80s.

Do they get attendance allowance? You could try and sell that as the government paying for a cleaner/gardener. It sometimes works.

I’m afraid I used a bit of emotional blackmail. ‘I’m honestly awake at night worrying about this Mum, I can’t stand to see you struggle’ that sort of thing. Tbh it was also true. I also had the persona I called the ‘bossy daughter’. My mum HATED having a cleaner but did put up with it for a while. We’d found mice and droppings around the house which triggered the decision.

I sold bank access to her on the basis that she made the decisions but I could do the legwork - also true. I was determined because I worked on a hospital stroke unit and every day had relatives tearing their hair out because their elder was suddenly unwell and they had no way to sort paying the bills. Especially if they lived a couple of hours away. Of course they make decisions but they do have to consider you because you WILL be landed with this.

I’ve been a nurse for 30+ years so have seen the struggles too & keen to at least get to a point where things are manageable whether that’s here or there. Thanks all for your input, it’s good to get thoughts from others in similar circumstances.