Need advice on safeguarding for elderly parents

[GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder]

Hi, I’m starting to look for ‘home help’ support & getting ridiculously expensive quotes for that service via elderly care services (this is in Scotland). I’ve started looking further afield & asking for PVG/DBS checks for anyone I’m getting a quote from, but I’m not sure how to validate what I’m seeing/how useful it is. I’ve had one person send me a basic DBS check dated July 2024, which just states he’s no unspent convictions. I thought they were done yearly (so this seems out of date) and I’m not sure what else it checks beyond unspent convictions. Anyone able to give me a steer on whether this seems legit or an out of date very basic check that’s not suitable for considering safeguarding for vulnerable elderly parents (one has dementia, the other has limited mobility).

any help/advice on what I should be asking for, or checking for, would be appreciated. Thanks.

I would say you want an enhanced adult dbs check done no more than a couple of years ago - most employers redo them every 3years. Care is very expensive, I’d go through an agency to give you some backup

Thanks. That’s helpful. I had approached a couple of agencies to begin with (for that reason) but the quotes just weren’t affordable. They exceed what my dad (who worked for decades) gets in his pension & my mum’s pension is minimal. I’ll see if I can find a way around the cost if that’s even possible, as I’d rather be 100% on the safeguarding than cut corners on that.

Do they get attendance allowance? Get that and ask for a social service assessment. They can check finances and may contribute towards the cost.

Thanks again. That’s very helpful.

No advice on DBS but even if you get all the paperwork and recommendations etc I’d install CCTV. It’s so cheap and easy to install. It probably be useful anyway. You can easily get ones where you can talk via the camera unit.

Contact your local social services department and ask for an assessment. They might be able to provide some help for your parents x

Just to add that I don't know what the current regulations are, but at one point someone from the council went round to my (late) parents' home to check that they were getting all that they were entitled to.

We hadn't applied for Pension Credit because they had savings. However it turned out that, because they each received Attendance Allowance, they were deemed to be one another's carers and this meant that they had an underlying entitlement to Pensioner's Credit. It was stopped when Dad died.

I'd suggest that you get in touch with Citizens' Advice - they helped a neighbour's friend apply for various allowances.

In the end, Mum's care was supplied by a company subcontracted to the council and we paid the company additional money from Mum's AA to supplement the care.

The care company gets a massive amount of money out of it, though, and it's certainly not passed to the carers.

One time, my husband had gone up to the care company's office to pay the private bill. He handed over the cash that I'd drawn from Mum's account to pay the bill.

They later denied that we'd paid and demanded the money all over again. I told them we had a receipt. They demanded that DH take the receipt to their office...

It was sorted out, but I never trusted them again - with good reason. It was a franchise, I believe, so other companies of the same name may be more trustworthy.

Carers who had left the firm used to refer to it as "Scarewatch" - it rhymed with the actual name.

The firm that we used afterwards - again in conjunction with the council - was Avenue. They were better.

@GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder

If you don't already have it, get Power of Attorney.

One gets low rate, the other gets high rate. I need to get my dad’s claim adjusted as his dementia is quite advanced now & he’s completely ‘gone’ mentally, but physically he’s still capable of walking/dressing/eating. He just can’t be left alone (he went out last week when mum was at hospital for appt, and managed to face plant coming off or getting on a bus - he was in hospital over the weekend & kicked off most of the time).

I’ve been trying to manage a number of different things so this has been on the back burner a while.

That’s already been done - we’ve been waiting months for a carer’s assessment (my mum isn’t fit to care for my dad but they’re trying to keep him at home so have left her to it despite her own deteriorating physical health). I’ve chased that again after my dad bolting & getting a nasty cut to his head again last week.

I’ve got that already but there’s been an issue with his ‘capacity’ status for a while. GP he had for years agreed 2.5 years ago he no longer had capacity & noted his records accordingly. Current GP now won’t supply letter confirming he lacks capacity as they’ve not seen dad (it’s almost impossible to get an appointment) and dad is now at the point he doesn’t co-operate with anyone. At all. So we can’t get him to sit in front of iPad for a capacity test (that’s what GP offered when we asked for a home visit to carry out capacity test). Hospital last week actually said they couldn’t contain dad as he ‘had capacity’ and didn’t want to be in hospital any longer. He was in the best place to have that assessment but he just won’t co-operate. So I go round in circles with health authorities & social care because they consider him to still have capacity.

It’s a bloody nightmare.

I’ve not looked at pension credit either, for the same reasons you mention. I’ve used a charity org local to my parents before when applying for mum’s attendances allowance so I’ll contact them again & see if they can help with the various things that are o/s re admin & claims etc. The cost of care is extortionate. They’ve v little in savings & after the storms earlier this year, we know they need a new roof at £9k+ and need a bathroom refit (approved by council may ‘24 & still waiting) so they’ve been cautious in using what little they have for now.

But this is helpful so thanks.

In scotland it is PVG that is required. I'm not sure how you get one for an individual. You may be better to employ them through an agency. I would certainly talk to a couple of agency. This will give you a feel for how it all works.

Atrocious. The GP should be organising a home visit from a geriatric psychiatrist.

I'm hoping that you at least have a council fall alarm system for your parents, @GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder ?

The various care firms charge an arm and a leg. When Mum was on her own - before I had her accommodation sorted out at our place - I was paying £150 a night back in 2011 for a carer 'sleepover'. That was the price for a 'waking night', but the firm claimed it had to charge that in order to pay the carer a decent wage. (There were set rates and a sleepover was supposed to be around 90 at that time, I recall.)

When the carer found out what we were paying, she nearly fainted - she wasn't being paid anywhere near the amount we were paying and I think was under the impression that we were only paying 90. That was Scarewatch...

Agree, and this used to happen but the service in Scotland is falling apart and the waiting list is awful. I left GP 2 years ago and things were falling apart then but it's much worse now. It's awful. We had a wonderful care of the elderly psychiatrist covering our practice area who I used to just email and he'd sort everything. Did all the capacity stuff, liaised with social services etc. So sad it's gone and it's the parents who suffer.

I am in Scotland too and do understand the PVG system.

Disclosure Scotland operates the PVG scheme. Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) is England and Wales only. Separate system in N Ireland operated by AccessNI.

Whatever the system, a self-employed individual can only ever apply for a basic disclosure check on themselves. Whatever their line of work. A basic disclosure check will list unspent criminal convictions only. It will not list very old minor convictions, or anything pending.

The more detailed level of disclosure is an enhanced disclosure and this is the level you would have to work in a school, hospital or care home. You cannot apply for this yourself, the application has to be made through your employer, agency or supervising body (so a self-employed swim coach could get one through Swim Scotland or similar). An enhanced disclosure will list all unspent convictions plus other convictions which are spent but which the police consider relevant - so a fraud conviction 10 years ago when dealing with vulnerable elderly, or an assault conviction or similar. The police also have the ability to disclose "intelligence" on an enhanced disclosure, so things about matters which have yet to come to court, or that the person has been reported 10 times for rape but that has never resulted in a conviction.

Obviously a disclosure is not the be all and end all and I would not automatically be suspicious of someone who is a self-employed carer and can only offer a basic disclosure, because the law says that is all they can have.

This makes sense if what I’ve had to deal with. The timing linked to my dad’s deterioration is really unfortunate - his long standing GP retired just after he added the note to his med records, and the new set up is awful. The practice was taken over by some larger org who are a nightmare & it’s almost impossible to get an appointment. None of the doctors know my dad, one came out the 1st time he bolted & had to be brought back by the police, and was nice enough, but getting any actual care/support for his deteriorating condition is a nightmare. Because he can still walk, dress & eat. But he’s gone mentally & we’re both ill equipped to deal with him - he was difficult before the dementia, he’s 100 times worse now. He’s not seen a psychiatrist since his diagnosis was confirmed 4 years ago.

Thanks, they have the fall alarms already & they’ve come in useful for my mum who fell a month or so ago (luckily no lasting injuries). The difficulty is my dad & him leaving the house. We got a GPS key ring for his keys (it looks like a car key fob) but he doesn’t put it on charge all the time & only has a 24 hr battery life. So it’s hit & miss on whether it will work when he does bolt. But last week, no one knew he’d left the house so we wouldn’t have checked (he left an hour before my mum got back). My mum has limited mobility & doesn’t go upstairs through the day & he spends most of his time in his room. He was at A&E before she knew he’d bolted again.

Thanks, this is really helpful. I understand better the differences & what’s appropriate. I’ve had another cleaning firm reply confirming their staff are fully vetted & have full checks, so that sounds like a better option. Their deep clean fee is more but the weekly cleaning cost is less, so I think we’d go with that one, after I’ve seen the checks. It’s good to get a better understanding of what the basic checks do vs the enhanced ones. 🙏

I'm sorry that you're going through all this, @GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder

We had similar problems in that my parents' GPs both retired at the same time. The youngsters who took over obviously didn't know them at all.

Dad had English as a Second Language (Eastern European Displaced Person) and had had TIAs, but was mentally very sharp. He looked big and burly but had multiple physical problems. Mum had dementia and obvious osteoporosis.

I'd call for a home visit for Dad. Would get round to the house and discover that the GP had ignored Dad, had gone straight to Mum and had issued yet more opiates for back pain...

Mum's geriatric psychiatrist home visit finally came the day we got the phone call to say that dad was dying in hospital.

Sorry - that's not help you...Just saying that I have an understanding of the situation.

I’m so sorry you’ve been through it too. It’s just a never ending cycle of going round in circles trying to somehow make progress. Support only comes grudgingly in crisis. Thanks for your responses.

Apple AirTags or the equivalent (tiles etc) are inexpensive and have over a year of battery life. You can pop ne on his keys, his wallet, in the pocket of his favourite coat etc. If you get cctv too as mentioned earlier then that might help. You can also get door sensors.