If anyone remembers me

[EmeraldRoulette]

hi I think I was EmmaEmerald before

I thought long and hard about posting this, partly because I don't really want anyone to ask about the specifics.

But There may still be people around who remember me having a nervous breakdown. So you might be sympathetic that I might be at risk of having one again.

Situation – mum has an ongoing legal problem.

When I had my breakdown two years ago, she really wasn't very well. She has got better, as much as you can in your late 80s - but unfortunately she buried her head in the sand about this problem and didn't really do anything until I climbed back on board and started doing stuff for her.

I'm not going to say it's as bad as it can be because sadly it can probably get worse. But let's say I'm dealing with the solicitor now under the power of attorney and it has gone beyond what I can cope with.

Last week it kicked off pretty badly and I had something of a meltdown. Not a breakdown but probably something that happens prior to a full breakdown so screaming, crying, feeling sick. And not in a someone exaggerating in TikTok way but really.

I am absolutely exhausted

But interestingly, mum is mentally coping with it better. I think it might be because she doesn't understand the seriousness of the situation or she is secretly hoping that it won't really come to a head until she dies. Or it doesn't seem real to her as long as I'm doing it. I was in such a state I actually asked her to come here yesterday, which she has to do in a taxi, I normally walk around there but I thought it was important that she see how much it is breaking me.

I'm trying to keep out of her way now because I'm still absolutely furious with her about it all. I shouted at the 86 year old yesterday I admit.

It was a totally totally avoidable problem and one I warned her about repeatedly. I know I should be able to put that to one side and deal with it rationally, but while I've been able to do that the last few months, I'm not sure I can keep doing it.

I now don't know what to do in terms of walking away. She doesn't seem to really understand how to deal with the solicitor. I think if she was left to herself she probably could? and he's a nice bloke. However, I do think one of the other reasons it's taking so long as he has a strange approach to what he's doing. And if he's left to run riot without me saying "this step is unnecessary" it's a case that could almost turn into a pet project for him. I think the caselaw on it fascinates him somewhat.

Sorry, this is long and probably not a very good explanation. Basically, I'm in a complete state so what do I do? Do I just leave mum to get on with it? Do I take the risk that the situation will get worse if I'm not involved?

Do I take the risk that the situation might be ongoing and she might die and that it will be hard to deal with after.

No one seems to be able to answer the question directly, but as far as I can see the legal obligations continue, and would possibly get worse. Because there are things we genuinely can't sort out at the moment. But if she died, I suspect the person on the other end of this legal case would say "you've got time to sort this out now because probate will take ages". I can't work out if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

When it all started, it was my worst nightmare that she might die before the case was finished. But whole thing is dominating my life so badly now I don't know how much difference it's going to make.

I know some of this is about my lack of resilience to stress. So it's the weekend. Nothing is going to happen about it. But I can't let go of it and I can't do anything. I'm exhausted. I fell asleep twice yesterday. I'm not currently medicated and I don't particularly want to go back to the doctor because to be honest my recent experience of doctors is pretty bad.

I don't know what to do at this point. It's almost as if the universe just sometimes put you through a really bad time. And you just have to hunker down and wait for it to finish. It's like nothing will make a difference to what you do. I'm sorry if that sounds completely mad but some of the things I've been through in recent years, do feel like that.

I am getting out for a walk and stuff every day, but it's not really helping.

I just feel absolutely surrounded by chaos and it's like I'm the only person who's supposed to be even trying to fix it. And there would be serious legal and financial consequences if it doesn't get fixed.

Thanks for listening - really appreciate it. There is one more thing I wanted to say, but I doubt anyone's got the patience for it so I'll see if there's any replies!

And what is the exact legal issue ?

OP it's so hard to answer because without knowing the nature of the problem it's hard to know if this is more of a mental health issue. I admit it's hard for me to envisage any legal issue outside of the criminal and family context that would be worth risking your mental health to this extent to resolve, and hard to envisage one of those that would endure to such an extent into late old age and beyond. So I'm inclined to say walk away but don't be surprised if your DM does too. Would that really be so bad? Worse than a breakdown?

You're not specific, but this sounds like a legal-financial issue. In that, the worst thing that can happen is she runs out of money completely. And then she would be on benefits. Maybe she would have to live somewhere else.
Are you worried that, if it does come to this, her money management is so bad that you would feel constantly obliged to help her out with donations you can't really afford, to keep her in food and fuel?
Do you have financial PoA that's usable now, no PoA, or PoA that only kicks in if she loses capacity?
If you became completely unable to continue (say, had a big old stroke), what would be the worst consequence?

By the way if it's an equity release scheme or interest only mortgage that she "forgot to deal with" or "didn't understand", you definitely won't be the first person on this board to have had that to deal with!

What’s the problem. Maybe we can help. With the combined wisdom of MN one of us will have been through this before and come out the other side…

Thanks for the replies

I cannot bear to talk about the legal problem any more and it's too complicated for even a solicitor to cope with

The real thing is - would you walk away from a problem thinking that it's better to try and deal with it later?

And preserve your mental health for now? Also, if she does try and deal with it, is it fair to leave an 86-year-old to deal with it?

Those are really my questions.

I don't think there's a risk that she will run out of money. I think it's possible the solicitor would take a different approach if I step away from it. I don't really care how much it cost, but it's not my money.

I think it's really the morality of it that's bothering me. But as with the nervous breakdown, I had two years ago, it seems incredibly unfair that my 40s are being ruined by all this

It seems less unfair for an 86-year-old to have to deal with the consequences of her own choice if that makes sense?

@MysterOfwomanY "If you became completely unable to continue (say, had a big old stroke), what would be the worst consequence?"

that would be the worst consequence. Me having a stroke or a heart attack from the stress.

@Magnificentkitteh yes if my mental health is better, I would have dealt with this better. I wouldn't be posting here at all. But unfortunately, my mental health is what it is.

I still feel it's really hard to just deal with an elderly person. It's very difficult to communicate with her now as well. I think she needs a hearing aid, but she's just ignoring that. She actually thinks that her brain has slowed down so she's not processing peoples words correctly. That is quite possible.

But it makes normal every day conversation very hard, never mind explaining legal things. She doesn't use a mobile phone or email. So messaging is not an option.

I didn’t read your previous thread so have no idea of the circumstances but I can relate . My mum at 81 is going through a divorce and subsequent house sale and for the sake of my sanity I am leaving her to it . She has no clue about any of it , what’s happening , what the implications are , providing information etc etc . Initially I offered advice all of which was ignored so now it’s up to her . I have no interest in any of her finances and won’t be POA since she accused me of taking £20 from her ( which she found by the door in the car ) . She has never made a good decision in her life so I’ve no reason to think this divorce / settlement will be any different. I’m not ruining my retirement worrying about her and have told her so .

I think morally it's fine to walk away. You'll be no use to anyone if you have a breakdown and will just add to your mum's problems.

Something we used to do at work was "time boxing" - we would devote e.g. 2 hours once a month to whatever it was.
You could try that approach.

Health consequences are pretty serious. You don't get time back and as we age we don't necessarily recover 100% from health issues.
And it may be more strategic to keep yourself well for when she really DOES need someone to have her back. In hospital or whatever.

Not sure why it would pass to you to resolve when your mum dies, but it sounds like you need to walk away before you go pop. You say it was avoidable, so she has created this, not you, so walk away. Who knows how long it will rumble on, how long she will live, what the outcome will be. If it doesn’t directly impact you then let it go.

Do you need to change solicitors, it sounds like this one could be fleecing you as all these interesting unnecessary steps are costing you money

@Magnificentkitteh thank you I think that's what I needed to hear

@MysterOfwomanY I can't do the time boxing thing. This worries me so much it's on my mind all the time. I feel sick, I can't sleep. It's awful. I admit that another person would cope better with it. Unfortunately, I am just one person. Me.

I actually thought it was going to be resolved back in May. It turns out we got sort of one step forward and that was it. Part of my concern with mum if she doesn't realise what a vortex of crazy legal matters can be. So if I walk away, I run the risk that she'll leave me something worse to deal with.

Step away

It’s not your problem

Don’t even think about it or have any guilt

Tell the solicitor you don’t think she’s fully compos, or comprehending it.
And You are stepping back
Do not tell her, say the solicitor told you to.

It’s really difficult to advise without having any idea of what the problem is, but why will you have to deal with it when she dies? Is the problem one where the implications, obligations, financial commitments or whatever continue beyond her death and fall on you? What happens if you completely step away and refuse to get involved even after her death?

What might the consequences be?

She loses money, she loses her home? If she has money she can spend it eg on carers, food, whatever. If she doesn’t have money, social services will step in (if told about it) and she will be housed eg council flat, and will be given money to live on or people will take care of her if she cannot (thinking carers, microwave meals, that sort of thing.

Or people might be cross eg neighbours? Her problem.

Violence? Police.

However, I do think one of the other reasons it's taking so long as he has a strange approach to what he's doing. And if he's left to run riot without me saying "this step is unnecessary" it's a case that could almost turn into a pet project for him. I think the caselaw on it fascinates him somewhat.

Can you put these concerns in an email to him so it’s on record?

So if I walk away, I run the risk that she'll leave me something worse to deal with.

Why will it become your problem?

I strongly feel you should speak to your GP or whoever or wherever you feel you’d get some relief from, if you do it now you might not get as bad as you’re fearing.

Have you assumed Attorneyship on lackof capacity grounds or financial? If it is the former and there are sufficient funds, can you instruct the solicitor to proceed with whatever it is and then step back. A competent solicitor should be able to work through the issue without much further input from you. They may need to report at significant milestones, but should require your continual input.

As I say, it's really the moral issue here

And the practical matter of it possibly getting worse if she dies with it unresolved

I really don't want to get into what it is

In terms of the solicitor, I had trouble getting a solicitor to take this on. He's not trying to bother me in any way. It's more that there are some practical matters which impact on other people and he does need to talk to me about those. The suggestions he makes would probably be welcomed by someone else. But because I'm not coping, I'm basically wanting him to do the bare minimum. It's not really about the cost. It's about how to get out of the situation.

That said, he has given a ceiling price of what the work will cost and he has been very clear about what his boundaries are within that price structure.

I actually recorded our last call, with his permission of course - because I was finding it so hard to keep track of some of his ideas. When I listened back to it, it was like it was a different call to what I thought it was! My brain really is not working at all.

This thread has been helpful. I can see that it is to do with my mental health that I'm finding it so hard. Or maybe I should just say it's the way I'm set up mentally. Like my mentality or something.

Some people are very good at moving forward and just doing what needs to be done you know? I am not one of those people.

I have to learn to be I guess.

Thanks, everybody, really appreciate it.

I think there's a brain strain that happens when you're dealing with an oldie. It's like all your resources divert there and you don't have a lot of brain space for other stuff. Or I don't anyway.

Huge sympathies op. I'm dealing with a raft of issues for my parents and have had to involve solicitors too; it sounds like a less complex situation than yours but I have never in my 45 years felt so anxious. It became physical, I couldn't eat, sleep, think, work etc - had to have a week off work because I literally couldn't think. Have had an assessment with talking therapies and am one rung below severely depressed, how has this happened to me?!
How time critical is the issue and can you step away for two weeks (or more) telling the solicitor you need to see x y or z progress by the time you're back? Mine was amazing and just did what I needed her to (land registry issues) but I can understand how stressful it must be if it's complex.

@Neighneigh i'm so sorry to hear that. I noticed you say "how has this happened to me?" And that's a very large part of my anger as well. It feels like it's been done to me.

Thanks for your suggestion.

unfortunately, we are at a stage where the next bunch of actions have to be taken by me and or mum. She's not really capable of taking them. I don't think so anyway.

You may be in a similar position in that there are some jobs that you could in theory hand over to a solicitor but it would actually be much quicker for you to do them.

in terms of how time critical it is, it depends. I wanted to be rid of this problem ages ago and I'm really struggling with the fact that it's still going on.

It's going to become a lot more expensive and problematic if it goes on another couple of years. Problematic for me and expensive for mum. I don't know what happens if she dies and the other party/parties has to make a claim on her estate. But there would be immediate upfront costs which I'd have to pay and then try and take them out of the estate as well.

But also in terms of how time critical it is, if there's a chance of getting it completely finished soon, I would rather do that. Part of the reason I lost it last week was I thought we were nearly there, nearly out of the woods, and then a problem that even I didn't anticipate suddenly struck.

That was really shocking because I have been extremely worried about this from the start, I thought I had worked through every possible problem in my head and something came from left field and genuinely looks like it might take months to sort out. Which of course then leaves me wondering what's going to happen next...

sorry that was very long, I really hope your situation gets resolved soon. 💐

It’s very hard to advise without knowing what the issues are, or what the possible consequences of various courses of action might be. Can you give any information?

Why are you so involved? What are the ‘moral implications’? I ask because I know people who so hate to let others down or be the bad guy, that they will catastrophise wildly about situations and possible outcomes. Do you think you are susceptible to this? You walk away and what happens?

@rickyrickygrimes first concern is that my elderly mother will become ill with the stress of coping with it

The reason she's okay now is I think because she's not familiar with the ins and outs. But if I hand it over to her, she will have to be

you ask why I'm so involved - well, I have power-of-attorney, and deal with the legal and financial stuff. The whole point of my Parents giving me power of attorney was so that I could look after them when they couldn't manage this kind of stuff anymore.

"moral implications" - other people are affected by this. Technically, those other people are not my responsibility. But yes, I do have a moral compass. It is annoying. I must learn to be more psychopath! 😂

catastrophising - yes, I do this. Unfortunately, the catastrophising I have done about this has proven to be true and a new problem arose last week, which I hadn't anticipated. I'm not sure you can call it catastrophising when it's a reasonable assessment of what might happen.

BTW, there is a clear path of steps to follow. Most of the time. What I'm really not coping with is how incredibly long it's taking, how many things are going wrong while it happens, and the fact that being a legal matter, stuff just seems to appear out of the blue and make it look like the path is gonna be completely different. It's the unpredictability of it.

Just to reiterate, I do feel quite sure that someone who is stronger mentally would cope absolutely fine with this. So advice on coping mechanisms is welcome. My stress resilience is pretty poor. I sometimes wonder if I've just run out of it because of all the crap that's gone on with my mum over the last few years.

@EmeraldRoulette sorry only just seen your update - yep, i share your anger! And also frustration that people don't move as fast as we do / we want them to. I need to JUST GET IT ALL FIXED but everything takes so long....I could tell you about having to get access to a VAT account that I can't get in to, but you'd probably fall asleep.... wishing you all the very best btw, it's a phase of life I never knew existed and I'm staring to fucking hate it

@Neighneigh thank you! That's a really good way of putting it - it's a world I didn't know existed in terms of how much legal hell there can be out there.

There is actually more to this story, because I tried to get my Parents out of this situation years ago - they didn't fucking listen.

This is literally a level of legal (and practical). hell I didn't know existed. I'm quite lucky I found a solicitor to take it on.

What you said about the VAT - yes, I am also at the start of another vortex of crazy that I did not know existed. It's similar to this problem that kicked off last week, I expect. Everyone who is supposed to help you with it doesn't know what's going on either.

You are probably in the same position that the timing of it is such that you have hit that awful perfect storm of every organisation using technology that they don't know how to use. So you cannot get anywhere. i'm currently at a roadblock with an organisation asking for legal documents that don't exist! And this may lead to another court issue. The courts must be clogged up with a huge amount of totally pointless stupid stuff.

It sounds like you have some idea of what it going on in my life, so if I just literally ignore it until mum's not here, which might be another 10 years I don't know, her money will be absolutely sunk into it - and now I know that legal bugs can crawl out of the woodwork and even lawyers can't deal with them, that seems like a massive risk to take.

I think until you actually arrive in a situation like this, you don't know that there are loads of things that solicitors can't sort.

The first part of this, that I thought was the worst bit, that was dealt with in May or June, involved court. Solicitor said it was the worst bit. Turns out, no it wasn't.

Or is it just the cumulative stress making the new stuff seem worse?

Sorry that was really long, but it's a relief to say that to someone who understands. I'm really sorry you're in this similar position though.

I feel absolutely on the edge of hysteria with it all the time.

I have managed not to think about it today. I think that's a start. Hopefully a bit of brain space will enable me to make a decision.

I don't want to kick you when you are down but you have responsibilities if you have power of attorney, the primary one being that you have to act in 'the donors' (your Mum) best interest. It does not sound as though washing your hands of whatever the legal issue is would be seen as being in the best interest of your elderly mum. You could resign as her attorney and walk away but if you remain as her attorney then you have a duty under that agreement to help her navigate the situation. I hope you make the decision which is best for both of you. Are you under a mental health team after your previous breakdown? Can you contact them for support and additional coping strategies?

Poor you @EmeraldRoulette. You do sound as if you’re absolutely on the edge of a breakdown. Are you doing any self care like taking walks in the daylight and eating a healthy diet and keeping hydrated? I don’t say that to sound condescending, but I realised in the maelstrom of looking after my elderly DPs that I was neglecting these things and making myself worse.

If your fundamental question is do I prioritise myself or my DM, then absolutely it has to be you. You didn’t cause this issue and it sounds like resolving it is extremely detrimental to your mental health. Will handing it back make your DM ill, well maybe, but at the minute you’re not well.

I would propose taking a break of at least a fortnight, tell the solicitor that you will be incommunicado. Try to relax and take a break, then brainstorm all the options and look at how much effort they will involve from you.

@SleepingisanArt that's okay I completely agree, my mum is actually unbothered either way and in some ways I think she would rather it was just left until she's no longer here. But she's obviously and understandably terrified of having to do another 10 years on this earth so it's not really possible to talk to her about what happens in that timeframe if she's still around. It upsets her too much.

If she was really pushed, I think she does understand why it needs to be dealt with now. But it's hard to tell really. I mean, there's a mentality of "everything will be fine" which is how she got here in the first place.

No, I'm not under the care of anyone. I was under the care of a team for about 20 years. It doesn't really make a difference except for medication. I don't really feel like dealing with all the unpleasantness of going back on medication for this and I suspect it wouldn't help. Medication didn't stop me having the nervous breakdown two years ago. It's actually been really nice not to take any medication for the last couple of years. And not have regular doctors appointments - so nice.

@rookiemere yes generally I do all of that. I'm forced to go out walking in the daylight because I don't drive anymore but the weather is still relatively nice. I didn't work out at all last week - normally I love working out - but I was too anxious to focus on anything. Hopefully, I'll fit something in tomorrow.

Again, in times of extreme stress, I don't find any of this makes a difference. But it's part of my normal daily life so I suppose I don't know what kind of state I'd be in if I didn't do it!

yeah, I might tell the solicitor that I'm going away at short notice and will deal with stuff later. And take some time to think about the massive tree diagram of next steps. Which is already massive without factoring in unexpected weird stuff.

Thanks to everybody for listening.