Difficult sibling and caring for parent- boundaries without unnecessary upset?

[wannabedogwoman]

I'd be very grateful to hear experience or advice about how to retain boundaries/avoid self sacrifice when trying to help care for my elderly, recently widowed mother alongside a very difficult sibling in a way that minimises upset to our mother.

For context, my mother can do most day to day tasks for herself at the moment but cannot leave the house without help and needs a lot of help with household admin etc. Due to chronic health conditions she will definitely need more help over time. Currently I am doing all of the time consuming tasks (including weekly shopping, booking/attending many medical appointments, keeping on track of medication, household admin and organising her affairs after my father's death). I don't live nearby so do some of this from home and arrange my work/family around visiting her for at least one full day a week. Brother lives close by and pops in to check on her every few days but will not do anything time consuming. This is difficult for me but is manageable and I am starting to persuade mum to agree to some small changes to make better use of time for all of us (eg medication/shopping deliveries, paying bills by DD etc).I have started some discussions about finding out about possible external help for if/when she needs it and trying to help her to see this in a positive light (eg- if we organise another way to have some of the mundane tasks done, I will have time to take her out instead) and we've also discussed making some changes at home to help her be more independent. There could easily be a solution that we could all work with, at least for a few years.

The problem is that my brother is used manipulating our parents in to doing whatever he says, including doing a lot to help him even when they were not really well enough. He now expects that I will do the same so as well as helping mum he is putting pressure on me to do more to help him (including committing to regular child care, running errands etc). He also gets annoyed about changes I have made to make things easier and frequently tells mum that she should not have external help as 'family should look after one-another'. He is verbally aggressive when I disagree with him or say no to his demands which upsets mum. I think that his idea is that if he makes things unpleasant for me and upsetting for mum I will have no choice but to do as he says. Obviously this is distressing for mum. Whenever he has an outburst in front of her he calls in to apologise the next day and tells her how hard his life is (just general parenting/adulting stuff that we have all had to do). She always calls me afterwards to plead his case and ask me to 'just consider' doing more for him because she just wishes she could make things easier for him and she wants us to all get along. I have tried reasoning with him when he is calm but he is adamant that he is only asking me to do 'what any normal sister would want to do'. He has hinted that his stance on having external care for mum is essentially a bargaining tool- if I do more for him he will 'let' her consider this. Quite frankly if it were not for mum I would have absolutely minimal contact. But for now I am trying to find a way to make things more pleasant for mum and get her the care she needs without having to agree to give up what small amount of time I have left to myself.

We have slightly similar (although in my case my sister is pushy/manipulative/needy rather than aggressive).

I’ve found the grey rock technique really helpful, along with having a very clear and defined sense of what I am willing to do.

So any time he asks you say “I’m not going to do that.” If pushed for reasons or justifications, just say “I have my own life and priorities; I’m not available to help you with that”. Never give detailed explanations as he will argue or try to wear you down.

When he gets aggressive or bullying you say “Please don’t talk to me like that”, and when he continues you say “I’m ending the conversation and leaving now”. Never rise to it, but also never let him get away with it.

And with your mother just keep reiterating “I’m not going to do that for him. He can sort that out for himself”, again don’t enter into discussion about it. When she says she wants everybody to get along you can say “I think that’s unlikely while he’s constantly pressuring me to do things for him. We’d get on better if he accepted my answer is no”.

one thing I’ve found helpful is never talk about “helping out” or “errands” - those terms tend to sound normal, and like things a loving sister would do. Instead I always say “I won’t do that for her.” - it’s a subtle shift but constantly highlights that actually she just wants me to do stuff she doesn’t want to do for herself.

And if you’re worried about his behaviour around your mum call adult social services and flag her as a vulnerable adult.

Thank you WhenIAmKing. I have stopped giving justifications for saying no, as you suggest, so I think I need to keep on with that. Your comments on specific wording are interesting- his requests/demands are always put in terms of 'helping' or 'just...' which does make it sound like a small request for a little bit of assistance. I'd not really thought of that as part of the issue. He also often refer to child-care requests as 'visiting' or facilitating mum's relationship with his child - which thinking about it makes it sound like something that's not really for his benefit. I will be much clearer in my wording.

I don't think mum's at any immediate physical danger from him- his aggression is verbal (with a bit of throwing things when he's 'upset') - it's more the stress and upset that I worry about. Unfortunately he is extremely good at manipulating people and I'm sure anyone he talks to about this will conclude that I am indeed a heartless cow and he just wants us to be a big happy family who take care of eachother. I would be willing to put up with that if he would stop upsetting mum and allow me to get on with my own life when I'm not helping her

Keep on with the grey rocking and don't react to his tantrums. Come back to all of his requests with "Gosh, no, I'm far too busy for that - in fact I need you to do mum's shopping this week and take her to the doctor next week", or "Oh no, I'm swamped - in fact can you just come and do a tiny bit if DIY at my place?". He probably won't do what you ask, but it'll stop him asking you for stuff.

He's the one upsetting your mum, not you. Absolutely deliberately, because he knows that's the way to manipulate you. What a prick. So just draw a moratorium on discussing it with her at all - no exceptions. "Not discussing that mum. OK, Tuesday at ten for the doctor, be ready. Bye now".

Your brother is lazy and manipulative and completely out of order to expect you to help him with childcare under the guise of helping your mum.

The 'throwing things about', even only occasionally is abusive. It's obvious that he is the golden child who can do no wrong, and your mum will do anything to avoid upsetting him, including trying to guilt trip you into helping him.

Keep an eye on his behaviour and report to Social Services if he crosses a line. Refuse to do anything to help him with his child. He has no right to expect this when you are doing so much for your mum, despite living so much further away, and he is just 'popping in' but doing nothing practical to help.

Thanks thepariscrimefiles I know that you're quite right but I have been hoping that we would be able to get through my Mum's last few years without the distress that she will inevitably feel if/when I properly call him out on his behaviour. This sort of behaviour is not new for him; for all his adult life he has manipulated our parents in to feeling sorry for him, doing lots for him and generally enabling him to avoid taking any responsibility or facing any discomfort. With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps I should have called this out years ago but until recently it did not directly impact on me and I knew that it was very unlikely that anything I could say would make a difference.

So don't call him out; just ignore him and don't do things for him. And if he whines to mummy, ignore that too (but in a gentler way; obviously don't be harsh with her, but be firm about not discussing it). Maybe asking her if she'd rather be left in his sole care would do the trick. A few weeks of just not reacting to him (or her, if he gets her to interfere) will probably cool his jets. He'll soon learn it's not working any more.

Definitely don’t call him out, that will just cause drama and also he won’t change. For these type of people drama is actually a good result because it forces you to keep engaging, keep discussing, and they think then they can persuade you or wear you down.

this is why grey rock works well - no drama, no discussion, just “I’m not going to do that for you”, “I’m not available to do that for you”, “I’m sure he can do that for himself” and nothing else that he can argue with.

Thanks everyone. I've been doing what I suppose is a version of 'grey rock' for a while (since I tried to have a sensible discussion but was met with aggression). At the moment it's just annoying him- probably partly because as pp suggested he wants the attention and drama. He's been ramping up the complaints to Mum. I think I probably just need to keep refusing to engage but it's very difficult to do knowing that he shouts at/around mum when I do that. It all feels so unnecessary. I'm trying to avoid contact with him but Mum tells him when I'll be there and he often 'drops in'. Sorry, this has turned in to a bit of a rant. I just feel really sad that he seems determined to make her last few years stressful for me and her. It's very clear to me that she has enabled his man-child behaviour for years but I'd have expected that he should be able to see that she just needs calm and some happiness now

If your mother can’t leave the house, do you need to tell her when you are coming?
As your mother has enabled your brother for most of his life, I wouldn’t feel too charitable towards your mother, in respect of avoiding arguments in front of her. I agree with the other posters about treating your brother with grey rock.
Surely if things get too bad for your mother then social services may be involved for assessment but you have to be prepared to let things fail.
While your brother may not be a nice person, you have chosen to help your mother, you cannot expect him to spend his time helping her.

Unfortunately I do usually need to tell mum (and remind her) when I plan to come as my visits are usually arranged around her medical appointments or dates that she wants to do something specific. She is thrown if I don't give her plenty of notice of her appointments etc, so I can't just turn up on the day and take her without warning her.
The problem is not that I expect Brother to do more for Mum (he probably should, as he has taken so much from her but I know he won't), but just that I want him to stop interfering when I try to find ways to make things easier, and to stop trying to use emotional blackmail/upsetting mum as a way to force me to run around after him as well as mum.
As of this week, I am simply refusing to engage with his demands and when mum has been complaining about how difficult things are for him I repeat 'That must be difficult. I know how hard it is to juggle work and family, I don't have any spare time either'. If that doesn't work, I will need to do as a pp suggested and tell mum I don't want to discuss him.

Sounds like you're doing really well - keep it up!

Can't you stop him interfering by just arranging the cleaner or whatever without mentioning it to him first? If he moans, ignore (or tell him he can either get over it, or do the cleaning himself). Same response to mum, if he persuades her to complain when there's nothing to complain about: "I'm not going to do your housework, so would you rather depend on DB, or leave it to Jane here?". If he's not paying, it's not his business - so don't respond to him as if it is. Stand firm!

Thanks @Elsvieta I can see that I am going to have to allow Mum to get in difficulties with some things before she will go along with what I suggest/organise if Brother disagrees, Using your example of organising 'Jane' the cleaner I would need to be there when Jane arrived (or Mum would not let her in). Mum would say that it was unnecessary as she could clean for herself. I would remind her of the cleaning she can't manage herself and tell her I won't be doing it for her but Jane could. That first time Jane would do an excellent job and Mum would agree it's a good idea. She would tell Brother how great Jane is but Brother would tell her she shouldn't have agreed to it. Who knows who Jane is or whether she can be trusted? Why am I 'throwing Mum's money away' paying Jane? If I'm refusing to clean for her now, he will do it. He had no idea she needed help with cleaning- why was he not involved in the discussion? If he'd known, he would have offered to clean for her. In fact he's hurt that she didn't ask him. Why could that be- are we trying to push him out? If I'm refusing to do a bit of cleaning for my lovely Mum then he'll just have to do it. He would make some half hearted attempt at cleaning for few weeks then make lots of excuses. Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother so will try to manage doing it herself. When I notice and try to get Jane back in to clean Mum will resist, as it's only a short term issue and Brother will be able to do it for her soon, he promised. The expectation will be that I will do it 'just for now' rather than bring Jane in and make Brother feel ousted. She may even ask me not to tell Brother that I've had to do it, in case he feels upset or criticised for not being able to do the cleaning for now. This is all based on his reactions to similar issues. I am trying to stand my ground but on some things I can see I will have to allow it to go wrong before she will admit that help is needed.

OP, does your brother hope that by not spending money, your mother will give him some or is he Planning on an inheritance?
You could tell him that you are trying to get people in to save you mother going into a home and spending money on fees.

My god, your brother sounds like bloody hard work. But then your mother has spent decades allowing him to be - positively encouraging him to be, in fact. I know she's old and frail now, but she's been training him to be a colossal pain in YOUR backside since she wasn't, right? She's really just reaping what she's sown.

You're right, you have to let it go wrong - not just that, but decline to pick up the pieces when it does. Oh, db can't clean at the moment? Three choices then, mum - wait until he starts cleaning again, get the cleaner back, or he can arrange a cleaner he's happy with. Up to you! Or up to him, if he's taken responsibility for cleaning - one way or another, he ensures it's done.

You must have the patience of a saint - I would have stopped talking to him years ago. Good luck.

We are just out the end of a very similar situation except it was my husband’s sister who was demanding, needy, aggressive and over stepped everyone’s boundaries. She lived abroad but she knew better than everyone else how others should be caring for her mother and she also was in complete denial about what was in front of us.

I guess we had the advantage that it was my husband who had to push back so it was not exactly a threatening level of aggression in that way but it has ended any hope of a future meaningful relationship with his sister which he finds sad.

How he handled interactions with her was all about deciding in advance what was reasonable and sticking with that knowing she was going to be completely unreasonable and deeply irrational. He limited emotionally charged conversations and he was more than willing to push back on unworkable demands if he needed too, I highly recommend the same.

Honestly dealing with the toxic sibling was as difficult as dealing with his mother’s illness, it was a horrendous time.

His sister also tried to bad mouth us to whomever would listen so be prepared for that too.

Using your example of organising 'Jane' the cleaner I would need to be there when Jane arrived (or Mum would not let her in). Mum would say that it was unnecessary as she could clean for herself. I would remind her of the cleaning she can't manage herself and tell her I won't be doing it for her but Jane could. That first time Jane would do an excellent job and Mum would agree it's a good idea. She would tell Brother how great Jane is but Brother would tell her she shouldn't have agreed to it. Who knows who Jane is or whether she can be trusted? Why am I 'throwing Mum's money away' paying Jane? If I'm refusing to clean for her now, he will do it. He had no idea she needed help with cleaning- why was he not involved in the discussion? If he'd known, he would have offered to clean for her. In fact he's hurt that she didn't ask him. Why could that be- are we trying to push him out? If I'm refusing to do a bit of cleaning for my lovely Mum then he'll just have to do it. He would make some half hearted attempt at cleaning for few weeks then make lots of excuses. Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother so will try to manage doing it herself. When I notice and try to get Jane back in to clean Mum will resist, as it's only a short term issue and Brother will be able to do it for her soon, he promised. The expectation will be that I will do it 'just for now' rather than bring Jane in and make Brother feel ousted. She may even ask me not to tell Brother that I've had to do it, in case he feels upset or criticised for not being able to do the cleaning for now. This is all based on his reactions to similar issues. I am trying to stand my ground but on some things I can see I will have to allow it to go wrong before she will admit that help is needed.

Just on this type of interaction, you need to stop this type of interaction early with a boundary. I highly suggest you practice some role play on this. Chat GPT can be great for this.

There are opportunities for you to stop this discussion in its tracks and for you to leave when these conversations start up.

Manipulative people are experts in these types of interactions, the secret is becoming expert in stopping them. It really does work. When you get used to it they get utterly flummoxed by the change on your side of the interaction. The secret is emotional disengagement. All their little digs and passive aggressive comments go straight over your head.

My version is when they make the sly passive aggressive digs about you pulling back

“I hear your point of view but I see things differently, feel free to do what works for you and I’ll do what word for me.”

Then disengage.

If he comes back at you which he will, you repeat the above starting with

“this conversation is going around in circles now, as I said you do what you can do and I’ll do the same.”

And walk away.

BIL didn’t want MIL paying for certain things as he didn’t want her funds depleted. Much easier for me and DH (300 miles away) to do it.
DH went home frequently and he complained that DH wasn’t basically spending all the time hanging around his house entertaining him and ignoring MIL.

Everytime he asks just starting listing allllll the things you are doing and then ‘so I just don’t have the time’ every single time.

I had the same with my sister when our Dad was terminally ill. I've not spoken a word to her since his ashes interal. And don't intend to again until I have to. I'm dreading when our Mum's health starts to decline and we get to play the stupid games all over again.

Mum will not want to risk upsetting or annoying Brother

that’s the core issue, right there. And you can’t really do much about that. I can’t imagine your mum is going to have some kind epiphany at her age. She has raised him to be this person, and neither of them are going to change. It’s commendable that you want to save your mum from distress, but frankly, given the personalities and the history here, there isn’t a lot you can do to change it.

so you either set your boundaries and keep them tight- or you give in for the sake of peace, over and over and over again.

“hey mum - I really need to reorganise how much and what I’m helping with. I think one thing that would really help is if we got a cleaner so that can free me up to still help with the appointments. The other option is I just stop cleaning and don’t get one - butI think we both know that might be a bit of a struggle. What do you think?”

As another poster said I think being prepared to let things “fail”, but that can be really really difficult! Your DB sounds really hard work and a bit of a nightmare... Please tell me you’re not actually doing childcare for him on top of everything else?!

I really hope you find a way to manage this (him).

Thanks everyone. Sorry to hear that others have experienced similar, but it's very useful to have the benefit of your advice. As @Handsomesoapdish says, dealing with the toxic sibling is as exhausting and difficult as having to navigate mum's needs and the practical help I give her.
@Elsvieta I plan to take your advice. I am not really as patient as I am trying to be. Until quite recently when our parents' health deteriorated I had very little to do with Brother. His behaviour to me, my DH, our DC and my parents has been awful over the years (I could write many threads on the subject!) and as you say, our parents have unfortunately enabled him for lots of reasons. He has only started to try to increase the interaction between us since our parents have stopped being able to run around after him. Ideally I would like to cut all but contact with him but I know that will upset Mum a lot. Dad's illness/death was faster than anyone expected so she's gone through a real shock and I really don't want to add to her distress, but equally I refuse to sacrifice myself to keep Brother sweet.
PP mentioned that he may be looking for to protect his inheritance/get money from Mum and I think there's probably an element of that but I suspect his real motivation is to make things as difficult for me as possible. I've been asserting my boundaries and remaining calm/unemotional so I think he's trying to do everything he can to provoke a reaction.

PP also mentioned that he might try to badmouth me- this has already started. I'd really rather he didn't but I just keep having to remind myself that people who matter will know me well enough to realise what's happening and anyone who spends time with Mum will see what he's up to. It's all so unnecessary.

Be warned, when MIL passes away BIL told everyone that DH had done nothing, had hardly visited and he had cared for her 24 hours a day. We sfill have issues with relatives who clearly believed him.

Is brother still married? Or was he as abusive to his wife and she divorced him?

Agree with others. Grey rock. Keep contact as minimal as possible. Let things fail and assert your boundaries. Be busy a lot ‘you want me to look after Sarah and David? Goodness I just couldn’t I barely have the time to look after my own children tinkly laugh’

@wannabedogwoman, what would happen if you colluded with your mother to allow your brother to live in his fantasy land, so that you could get on with caring for your mother in a consistent, sustainable way?

What I mean is, he's using classic controlling behaviour of guilt tripping, criticism, threat of shame and weaponised incompetence to assert his authority over you both. It's an entrenched dynamic over many years I guess? His emotional volatility has trained both of you to manage his reactions rather than address the actual problem. It's a nice set up for him because he gets to create just enough disruption to allow him to do very little actual work, whilst maintaining a facade of the opposite.

Seeing as it is his false narrative that you are the "difficult one" who wants to "exclude" him, and he's Wonder Brother who only has your mother's best interests at heart, how about going along with it? Could you exclude him from knowledge of any and all external support you secure for your mother? Could you get her to hide it from him too? She's clearly happy to do that in some cases anyway, given she's asked you to keep some things under wraps so as not to upset him. Could you both keep him in the dark about the things you're putting in place? He doesn't sound like he's the type to be particularly attentive or locked in to the detail of your mother's care, and I think you've hinted that it's only your mum telling him what's going on that gives him the opportunity to interfere.

There's a clear gendered double standard here where you're expected to either do the work yourself or manage the solution, while his token attempts are treated as good enough. It reveals an underlying assumption that women should handle caregiving - so why not let him believe that's what's happening? Give him small "wins" that make him happy when you can, and carry on with your bigger goals regardless, same as you would with a toddler!

Maybe that would work, or maybe it would cause a huge shitstorm if he found out, or maybe your mum would feel unable to deceive him. What do you think?

Ultimately, grey rocking, radical acceptance that he won't change and working on increasing your mum's awareness of the complex dynamics at play are your core tools here really; your brother's modus operandi is irreconcilable with getting good, consistent care for your mother without drama so I'm just wondering if you can find ways to circumvent him.

And I know you probably know it, but just remember that his controlling, manipulative behaviour and escalation over every little thing is a choice HE is making to sabotage your mother's care, not something you're causing. He is much more concerned with maintaining his authority than ensuring your mother has consistent, good quality care - what does that say about his character. He's trained your mother to feel accountable for his actions and behaviour, and to prioritise his needs over her own wellbeing...but you can refuse to play the same role, and whether he knows you have refused is irrelevant really.

Thanks everyone. @mrsmumbles you seem to understand him well- I hope it's not through personal experience of some one like him. Unfortunately there's no way that Mum would agree to keep anything from Brother for long- she is convinced that he's a lovely person at heart so whilst she'll hide some small things from him when he's in a bad mood she soon reverts to wanting to run everything past him.

Spurred on by everyone's support, I think I have made some small progress today. Once again Brother is trying to block some small changes to the way Mum's medical appointments are managed (changing from appointments at multiple small centres for different conditions to appointments at a larger centre where they have suggested we could arrange several of her routine appointments for the same day- which would save me a huge amount of time). My stance has been- 'Yes, I understand that changing things could be awkward at first but if we make this change I can organise things so that there is no more than one medical trip per week so if I do my work in the evenings and weekends I can manage that. I you and Mum want to keep things as they are, I understand, and will sort our x, y and z clinics but you will need to organise and take her to a, b and c.' He kicked off a bit- lots of noise about how he already does 'everything' else. But ultimately agreed to 'allow' me to make this change. He has since been in touch to say that we need to discuss how I will help his family- since he has 'saved' me so much time agreeing to this apparently I can't use the excuse of being too busy. Apparently this Friday he is 'once again the only one unable to go on the work night out and it's starting to be embarrassing. Apparently 'everyone' wonders why he can't get a babysitter when he has a sister who can go out whenever she likes (reference to the fact I told Mum I was visiting a friend the weekend before). I did not apologise or explain, just said 'Yes, it's difficult when you have young children isn't it. DH and I used to take it in turns at going out with work/friends once a month or so-you and your DP could do that. You were smart leaving having children until later, at least you got to go out when you were younger.' [I don't think he's smart, but I have learned that massaging his ego whilst saying a firm no really confuses him]