care home Financial

[pixiemummy01]

Hello I have just received forms from my DM's care home , she is self funding , we sold her property last year so there is a large sum of money in her savings account.
On the forms they say they need to know how much money she has in her accounts and her income is this right? can I just say there are sufficient funds in her account for a few years?

I think that you might want legal advice/citizens advice bureau, before answering this question. I really can't understand why they would need to know.

no, you’ll have to submit bank statements and details of the house sale, all pension, shares, investments held etc. it’s very intrusive but rightfully so. They need to check people are not trying to hide money. It was quite an intense process we went through but worth being thorough as it will help in the longer term once they were out of cash and the council need to take over funding.

As above they will want income of savings and pensions etc. She can claim Attendance Allowance if self funding.

Indeed you learn something every day. I knew that Local Authorities need financial information, but not private care homes.

PP are not correct at all. You can absolutely refuse to disclose. Speak to a solicitor.and tell the home no.

Yes that sounds reasonable. My mother's care home wanted to know how much money she had, because they wanted to know how long she she could self fund. They are reluctant to accept those who can only self-fund for a short time.

Presumably the forms are from the local authority - financial assessment forms.

The local authority won't be involved as the OP's mother has plenty of money to self fund. They would only be involved when her funds dwindled to £23,500.

Ok I see now, sorry was assuming they were LA forms but yes definitely odd if it's the Nursing home asking.

Yup, we are only having to disclose all this info as my FIL’s assets dip below £23,500.
£8,000 a month. His account was like a tap.

This exactly. Mil had to prove she was able to self fund for two years before the popular care homes would consider her. Obviously they prefer not to have people who can only pay for a short time.

Do you have LPA for finance for your DM?

@Nevertrustacop I think my mother's care home asked for 2 years as well (It was 8 years ago so it's hard to remember). It makes sense, because the care home doesn't want to be either evicting a resident or negotiating with the LA finance department within months.

My mother self funded for five years then went to LA funding, and the form filling for the LA is far more detailed and onerous.

The NH we wanted would only take my mum if we could show 3 years of fees in cash in the bank. We didn’t have it as her flat hadn’t sold at that point. You can say no, and they can then refuse to take her.

You have to disclose 36 months but the evidence is very intrusive, there are rules about what she has can be spent on, be careful as at the point she has to be council funded they will go back and check 7 years.

They're checking how long she's likely to be able to self fund, some care homes are reluctant to take someone if it's obvious that the self funding isn't going to last long as the local authority don't have to agree to pay the fees when a persons savings dip below £23, 250 and moves of this sort should be avoided if possible.

Soontobe60
Yes I do have POA

I don’t recall that we were asked any of this. However we had not involved social services at all - did not see any need to, although the care home (a specialist dementia) had arranged an informal visit from a SW beforehand, presumably to make sure DM did actually need residential care, and that we weren’t just aiming to have her ‘put away’ so to speak.

We had to give financial details to the care home (charity run by a religious organisation). I could only give a ballpark figure as my mums finances were really disorganised. I was told that people just don’t pay the fees and the charity is left trying to recover them or evict an elderly frail resident, very costly and entirely unfair. Sounds brutal and the fees were huge but the running costs were pretty huge too. A generic email went out during her time there to remind us to contact them once we got down to 6 months fees left. I think this is pretty standard in care. She still got her pension and attendance allowance as she was self funding.

They want to know what funds she has so they can assess how long she can pay to be there. They’re a business. Vague assurances about “several years” probably won’t cut it I’m afraid.

We had to do this and prove 3 years worth of funds. I can sort of understand this and people saying dont say anything are unlikely to do themselves any favours.

In fact this is quite timely because a friend of mine wants a very nice care home for her parent but can only afford a few months before the money runs out and asked me as I have been through this twice. She thought she could blag it and then ask the LA to pay as she felt that no home wants to be seen to throw out a elderly person.

TBH - yes they will! Another family member has a MIL with severe dementia and she has been asked to move her MIL twice now as her needs are so complex. They have got to a point now where they wish she would quietly slip away. This has been going on for 4 years. Whenever they visit the MIL she either doesnt recognise them or screams that she just wants to die. for another thread though.

Quite honestly if the money is there just take a screen shot and move on.

WE NEED A ROBUST CONVERSATION ABOUT VERY ELDERLY PEOPLE IN CARE HOMES. SOMEONE IS MAKING A LOT OF MONEY (MY FATHER WAS PAYING OVER £8K 2 YEARS AGO!)

It’s difficult to make out exactly how much of a cash cow it is, because the costs of running the business are huge, but certainly some big chains must be making money. I have a relative who is convinced that her mother was allowed to die literally hours after her own money was exhausted and she was due to switch to LA funding - after 10 years self pay.

The home where my mum is looking after her really really well. Far too well. If I were caring for her she would be dead by now (not deliberately). But it is still really frightening to me how hard we have had to fight to get a real ‘no hospital admission, don’t push the food, no antibiotics’ agreement. But it’s still not simple! In fact my mother has come closest to death 3 times when being ‘over fed’ because she vomits and inhales the vomit with a huge chest infection resulting. So in a way pushing the food too hard was likely to end things quicker than the current tiny plates of puree.

I’m not sure how much profit, if any, was being made in my mums care home. It was very expensive but set against what was provided, it must be very expensive to run. She wasn’t happy there but she wasn’t happy at home. She felt the loss of independence keenly but was too poorly which was disabling to be safe to live alone.

I do agree with you Permanent. What I am trying to say and I believe you are too is that some care homes dont want to be accused of letting an elderly person pass on under their care so they force food, numerous hospital visits where they stay for weeks. My DM had a UTI and the Community Nurse felt that it could be treated at home. She warned me that once an elderly person is there they are there for days/weeks! The Consultant over ruled her and she was admitted.

She was 91 and had every test under the sun - again. In the end a young hospital Doctor called me and said he felt she was just very old and her health was typical for someone of that age. Overall there was nothing much wrong. Again the hospitals dont want to be accused of agesim. So they throw everything at the elderly person.

I had it with both parents who were ready to go with some dignity a number of years before.

To me this is why LPA is so important and such a huge responsibility. We should channel the elderly person and say OF COURSE it’s not in their best interests to go to hospital, are you crazy???