Supporting Dad in NC Brother’s House

[Lmnsccb]

Elderly Dad has been living in NC brother’s house since 2021 after selling his house to move closer to us for support. Since then, he’s seen various houses, had them surveyed and rejected them when problems were identified.
I can only see him when I take his weekly shop round and make his meals, so can’t give the support that I see he needs as I’m not as present as I was before he moved out of his own home.
Realistically, I think he needs more support, and my brother isn’t providing any, apart from a space to live, picks up his meds, takes him for a daily walk around the block. There’s so much more that needs doing.
I don’t like the arrangement and find it stressful having to go to my brothers house to support him. He doesn’t really speak to me about anything meaningful anymore, just pleasantries, a bit cagey, because he’s living with NC brother, I suppose. I work full time and have to provide an advanced time and date to see my dad, when it is convenient for my non working brother.
Dad has just rejected yet another house.
Would it be unreasonable for me to look at support that he could get from the council list of vetted care services instead? I feel guilty about this but I feel that not having to go to my brothers to see my dad would improve my wellbeing.
Maybe I could pick him up, take him out instead, just be a daughter.
Any thoughts, suggestions? Am I being selfish or sensible to put boundaries in place for my own wellbeing?
Life is already stressful enough without this situation. I can’t see him ever leaving NC brother’s house.

I’m not sure what it is about this situation which ch is upsetting you.

I also can’t tell who is no contact with who.

your dad is living with your brother so they are clearly in contact.

you work full time but go round to see your dad and do his shopping so I’m guessing you are in contact with your dad.

you are visiting your brother’s house so are clearly in contact with him?

either way, your dad seems to have a place to live and someone who is spending time with him every day.

what extra support do you think your dad needs?

Why are you trying to take responsibility here?
Dad may be elderly but presumably has capacity.

No, I’m not in contact with my brother. No contact for nearly 20 years. He goes out, I go in, briefly, to sort my Dad’s meals out, etc.

It is not my preference to have to go to my brother’s house to help my Dad, but I agreed to do it temporarily, whilst he was looking for his own place. This was what my Dad has asked of me. We’re on the same page when it comes to nutrition. He puts in his order from his tick box shopping list and he gets quality food with the best use by dates.

I feel my father needs a higher level of support as things. Dad cannot take care of the area of the house he is living in and my brother doesn’t do any cleaning, laundry, etc.

I said I’d help him temporarily but it’s becoming permanent and not what I agreed to. Hence, my question.

Yes, my dad has capacity, me going to him there is his preference.

Perhaps your Dad is hoping that his two children will start speaking to each other again. Whose decision is the NC, and is it truly necessary? Would it not be possible for you and your brother to communicate just about the care of your Dad, whom presumably you both love?

I don’t think it would be possible or even right to arrange for strangers to come into your brother's house without his (and your Dad's) agreement.

It sounds as if your Dad should be looking for sheltered accommodation. He already needs help and this may increase quite rapidly.

Are you trying to exceed what this family dynamic allows for? It sounds like the dynamics are dysfunctional and you are trying to get the outcomes a functional family set up might aspire to.

It sounds like you are trying to put in solutions for your father where you are the person with the problem not your father. You can change your expectations here.

You are NC with your brother just see your father outside of his house then.

The rest leave to your brother and father until the situation changes.

We’ll never start speaking. I don’t honestly think my dad likes him either, but he’s reliant on him now for somewhere to live.He knows what my brother is about and understands why I keep my distance and thinks it’s best.

Interesting what you have identified.
I have only really looked at my father’s expectations and whether I can meet them.

Up until now, I have, but I think the reason why I’m struggling is because of what you say.

Stepping back worries me though, so I’m looking for another solution, encouraging anecdotal evidence that it will work.

I’m not looking for criticism for what’s currently happening but of course this is mumsnet.

Take your father out and ask him what he intends to do because he can't keep rejecting houses indefinitely. Point out that your relationship is suffering because you can't spend time with him and you are finding the current arrangements stressful.
Has he got cold feet about living by himself and would he prefer assisted housing? Who takes him house-hunting and is he being realistic about what he wants?

Thanks, these are my thoughts and worries.

My brother takes him house hunting and it has caused problems in the past when I took him when my brother went away. We found a lovely place that my dad liked and could have functioned well in but my brother was livid when he came back saying it was ‘his area’, got my dad to pull out of the sale as it would be ‘difficult to sell’ one day apparently. It has since been on the market and was sold.

I haven’t got involved since as it angers my brother and my dad is stuck in the middle.

Welp.
Your Dad is an adult with capacity. You're not responsible for him - although naturally you want to see him settled in a good situation.
You and your brother don't get on, this happens, and here it's not a new situation. Not super helpful but not an insuperable problem either.

Your Dad could have said, "I see you're mad, Brian, but I like this place!"

(That said - was it one of the places where you carry on paying a ££££ service fee while you try to sell it? - not ideal if you need the money for care fees)

Sorry, I'm rambling.
How about sorting an online shop for your Dad and using the time instead to take him out for coffee? And see if you can use this time (and all your powers of diplomacy and persuasion!) to encourage your Dad to get a move on and find his own place?
(How's his finances, by the way - would renting be an option?).
"Do what suits you, short of being a complete dick." is an adage which serves me well in these situations. Don't stand by while someone sticks their finger on a live wire, but in general let them make their own choices a d take the consequences. They're adults too.

Thanks, that’s also really helpful.

Yes, Dad could have been more assertive about the house we found but my brother withdrew his support to help him with everything that’s involved with that particular move. Dad can only move if my brother agrees basically.

It wasn’t one of those places where you carry on paying fees while trying to sell. We’re all agreed it’s not a good idea.

I think Dad’s finances are ok, but he sold his house 4 years ago and house prices are going up. My brother is charging him rent though.

I do feel Dad’s choices will always be influenced by his efforts to not upset my brother while he is living with him, wants him on side for support.

He's charging him rent and undermining his attempts to move out. Over 4 years. The penny drops.

Is there POA in place if your Dad becomes incapacitated?

Dad gave me POA over health as he found my brother interfering in his healthcare when he was in hospital and also with his GP to be a problem. This was 5 years ago though, and he has no recollection of the conversations he had with the senior staff at the time on the ward about my brother, nor the email that he sent to his GP at the time asking him to ignore my brother’s interference in his healthcare.

I also have POA over finances but since dad has been living with my brother, my brother has taken my dad round town to open various bank accounts to keep it in. Of course Dad has no recollection of where it all is and I have no idea.

My daughter helped set up his email account on his phone as his email password had been changed by my brother and my Dad doesn’t seem to understand the significance of not being supported to access his emails in order to manage his affairs, as opposed to having his affairs effectively managed by my brother in order to maintain communication with his contacts.

This is also another reason why I feel worried about backing off from my Dad. I’m worried I’ll end up loosing my Dad completely to him as his faculties decline further, as with hindsight, I now realise happened with my mother.

Would it be feasible for your father to live with you?

It would be far better for both of us and I think my father’s health would improve.

I would need to move though. My house isn’t big enough, also no downstairs toilet.

I’d have to take the upheaval.

Your father is being financially abused and quite probably stolen from. You need to involve social services.

Your last post is extremely worrying.
I think you should consider involving social services.
If neither you or your Dad knows where his money is and your brother is talking him out of every house he's considering buying - maybe it's because your brother is controlling the money?
He could already be unable to buy a house and any inheritance to you both could well be being squirrelled away where you can't find it.

You need to go and have a conversation with the police about what your brother is doing to your dad!!!!

Yes, but my brother took my Dad to all the banks to open bank accounts to spread the money around in. It’s money from the sale of his house and Dad says that each bank will only insure you for a certain amount of money.

Dad agreed that it would be a good idea at the time to spread the money across different accounts. On this point I don’t think anyone would be interested in my concerns. ‘Did your father agree to it, yes? Then why are you concerned?’.

You would probably think my brother is charming. He gets on with all his neighbours and the nurses that go in to see my dad twice a week. I think I would be seen as the problem as has been mentioned up thread. My brother has always been too cleaver for me.

I think I need a damage limiting solution.

Well as POA you have the right to establish the current balances and whether the accounts have been set up with access for your brother online. Or your father but if he lacks capacity to do online banking it's going to be obvious if there are transactions going through.

Do you have funds to get legal advice ?

If you have a financial PoA which is effective immediately, rather than when the donor loses capacity, yes. You can go round the banks and talk to them all and see what's up. It may well be a protracted and frustrating process though. Possible, nonetheless.

I’m think I have POA for if my Dad lacks capacity. I will have to check. Thanks.

I’m was just quite taken aback when I was visiting my dad and asked about progress with the house survey and he had no idea how to access his emails to read the survey. That was when I got him to phone my brother and asked for the my dad’s computer password and my daughter gave him access to his emails on his phone.

I did point out that he should be being supported to manage his emails but my brother appears to have totally taken over.

It’s not just about managing his affairs, he has many lifelong friends that he kept up with via email that he no longer talks about.

My brother got him to buy a new phone. The old phone has seemingly vanished and he had years worth of photos and WhatsApp on it that were not transferred to the new phone. My dad doesn’t know where the phone is and apparently, neither does my brother.

I think you need to talk to social services

So your brother is also socially isolating him. All the signs point to abuse I'm afraid.

posted before i saw the update so have deleted.