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Elderly parents

Hallucinating that people are not there

53 replies

frogpigdonkey · 11/08/2025 19:49

Hello all
looking for any common experience and advice here. My father has seemed to deteriorate in his mental function very steeply and recently. I’ve seen a slow loss of executive function in the last year but in the last 2-3 months he has had some really weird episodes. He has had a couple of what I would see as breaks from reality, where he is ranting and raving about things that aren’t real and scenarios that can’t be. He was extremely abusive to me on text and then on the phone about me having been at his home and taken his (non existent) girlfriend away and leaving her somewhere. He didn’t seem to really know who I was. Most of the time he is more rational sounding but will come out with non sequiturs and seem confused about basic things. More lately he has been very insistent that lots of people have been in his flat who haven’t been (his sister, an ex girlfriend and an ex wife). He almost always talks about going away with them but the calls me from the flat and says he doesn’t really know what happened but they aren’t there now.

I’ve tried to help him- I’ve tried to clean his (filthy) flat but he won’t let me. We’ve been to his doctors together and got a referral for a memory clinic (which needs a blood test first which will take 6 weeks,) and suggestions about social care but nothing really concrete or immediate. I’ve considered calling adult social services (he lives 70 miles away) but I’m conflicted- I’m his only real social contact and I worry that it will be a big breach of trust. But he’s deaf, limited mobility and struggling, and sometimes wants help and sometimes insists he is fine. His pace of deterioration and the jumps from a bit rational to absolutely raving and hallucinating worry me most. The advice for dementia seems to be not to contradict their delusions but I don’t know how to convince him he’s hallucinating and needs more help without doing this. Anyone had similar experiences and any advice? I’ve lived through a slow decline in vascular dementia with my mum but this feels very different.

OP posts:
TonTonMacoute · 13/08/2025 17:35

FIL had some crazy hallucinations with a UTI, MIL had Alzheimer's, and suffered paranoid delusions, and she would see weird things too.

The doctor sounds not much help OP. Did they do a GP Cog Test on your DF? And how on earth can a blood test take so long? Six weeks sounds ridiculous.

I would look on the local council website where your dad lives and look the page for help for carers. We had adult social care and also a community dementia team involved with MILs care, as well as the GP, but every area seems to be slightly different, and even the same area can change! I know you say you've been here before, but IME you have to be extremely proactive to get help since Covid.

frogpigdonkey · 13/08/2025 17:36

@Britneyfan cross posted! That’s exactly it. He’s so distressed when they aren’t there it tips over into mania and obsession.

OP posts:
Britneyfan · 13/08/2025 17:36

OP I’m a GP and agree if there is no acute infective type illness (and yes worth checking for UTIs - though a lot gets blamed on these in elderly people and everything is not a UTI for sure - but also checking memory screening bloods which will give clues to this), I agree Lewy body dementia is a possibility here and it’s harder to diagnose due to the fluctuation in symptoms. Vascular dementia seems less likely in that you can get sudden stepwise deterioration but not so much deterioration followed by improvement then deterioration again.

Any vision or hearing issues in elderly people can make memory issues worse so if the deafness can be helped with a hearing aid etc that’s worth pursuing and seeing an optician. I agree also some medications especially strong painkillers can cause this as a side effect in the elderly if he’s been started on something new (I’d say especially tramadol actually).

However if he has a history of depression with schizophrenic tendencies, this could well be something like what used to be known as “paraphrenia”, though this term isn’t really used anymore in the U.K. It’s worth asking for a referral to the mental health team as the right psychiatric medication can really help in that case. It is often the same team/same people that do the memory clinic stuff but not always and a “standard” memory clinic referral might take longer if this info isn’t included. Basically what you want once obvious acute infective type issues are excluded is an old age specialty psychiatrist.

menopausalmare · 13/08/2025 17:39

Dad had dementia with lewy bodies and also experienced hallucinations, apparently from macular degeneration. The brain fills in what the eyes can't see. Take him for an eye test.

Britneyfan · 13/08/2025 17:46

frogpigdonkey · 13/08/2025 17:36

@Britneyfan cross posted! That’s exactly it. He’s so distressed when they aren’t there it tips over into mania and obsession.

Ah your poor dad and poor you! Especially dealing with memory issues for a second time, it’s very tough. What you described with the ex wife sounds very hard to manage.

Is it 6 weeks for the blood test or the referral? If they’ve said 6 weeks for bloods I would definitely push to get that done earlier as urgent, and you could also ask for the referral to be sent off meantime to get the ball rolling and send the results later on as an addendum (though around here they just bloody reject it if they haven’t got the results of the bloods yet argh). It would be good to get things moving as much as possible while he is in a cooperative mood (I also agree about trying to get power of attorney sorted out if you can). I assume he doesn’t have private insurance or anything?

You could self pay maybe to see a psychogeriatrician/old age psychiatrist privately if needed for speed - could get expensive though as he’d need bloods and MRI brain as well as at least one consultation. And then if they’ve decide he needs admission that’s a whole other ball game of expense though at that point if it’s really necessary they can often liase with the NHS to find a place.

frogpigdonkey · 13/08/2025 17:51

That’s brilliant advice @Britneyfan thanks very much. And thanks for the advice on eye tests as well- I definitely think the deafness has contributed to his decline but I hadn’t considered his sight might have got worse recently.

I spent the day with him today- his overall deterioration was clear as well as paranoia and some depression, returning to topics obsessively. Going to call the docs tomorrow and see if I can hurry up any of the tests or ask about specialists and infection tests.

OP posts:
frogpigdonkey · 13/08/2025 17:53

6 weeks for the blood test. I’ll try and escalate it.

OP posts:
cherrytree12345 · 13/08/2025 18:16

My late DF had early dementia but suddenly was having hallucinations and could no longer do basic things like turning on the TV or use the microwave. He had tests for a UTI which were negative. Slowly he improved but not to his previous ability levels. Then 6 months later he had a CT scan for a different issue, but his head was included because of the confusion. It turned out he had had a stroke in the back of his head although he had no physical paralysis at all. When we talked to him about it he said he had experienced a pain in that area of his head

Ladamesansmerci · 13/08/2025 18:24

I'm an older adult mental health nurse. Sounds like delirium. Use the PINCH ME tool.

P-pain
I- infection
N- food intake
C- constipation
H- hydration
M- medication (any recent changes, or strong meds like steroids/tramadol)
E- changes to environment

All of these are significant factors in delirium.

It is not necessarily LBD. Hallucinations happen in other types and delirium. Delirum is typically an acute change in presentation. Capacity and cognition will fluctuate, and one moment someone may seem normal, and the next may be behaving very oddly indeed.

He needs a physical health review. You also need to go back to your GP and request they expedite it through CMHT. It's too complex for MAS. I'm CMHT and we triage referrals. I would not send this to MAS as it's complicated by his Schizophrenia history, which can also affect memory. Antipsychotics can also affect memory if he's on those. He needs more than MAS.

If you think he needs social care, I'd advise you to refer him. If you don't feel comfortable, you can ask the GP to do it. Whether they will will depend on whether he has capacity, which is a legal term relating whether someone can weigh up information, retain it, and make a decision.

frogpigdonkey · 13/08/2025 22:35

I have referred to the social team at the local council. He was ok with this- they are promising they will be back with a care assessment appointment pretty soon but I’m happy to advocate with them, I’ve taken from all this that I need to be more of an advocate and more clear about how bad it is with the doctors and try and move that up.

it is distressing, for him and for me. He’s still convinced hes been in touch with his ex wife and planning their reconciliation. She never wants to see him again. I don’t know how to navigate supporting him while not feeding his delusion.

OP posts:
Juneday · 14/08/2025 15:17

lots of great advice here, went through this with MiL so I feel for you (both) she would get very anxious about chickens running around her lounge and being stolen, alabaster men in her hospital bed, and the most spooky stories about people in her flat with quite mad my vivid descriptions, sometimes she would scream out and the neighbours would ring us. It's distressing and I can't say for sure what caused hers, she did have dementia and she also had a few UTIs and was not eating well. She went into a dementia ward in a care home where her confusion got worse but hallucinations subsided after a while. Her dementia type wasn't really labelled, I think the conclusion was vascular dementia at the initial assessment, but that was before hallucinations and shouting out etc. Regardless get all those signs checked as suggested, when the brain is aging messages about pain or cold etc. can get mixed and confused.

Limehawkmoth · 14/08/2025 16:34

So my dad went through this…

in first instance absolutely push to get any signs of any infection ruled out. Delerium does cause hallucinations and delusions. Gp is not doing their job if this has been absolutely ruled out, and it’s not just UTIs, other infection can cause issue

Then rule out any impact of loss of sight, get eye test if not recent. There is a condition called Charles bonnet syndrome. That causes sudden onset hallucinations of people, especially child like people. Rule it out

then you mention he had psychotic illness diagnosis earlier in his life. Your Gp must send him to get assessed by mental health team and rule out that he is experience psychosis and with it hallucinations and delusions. Until that’s done and ruled out (particularly any stress, or lack of sleep or any number of other things can cause a crisis of psychosis even if it’s years since he was last affected) again don’t let go fob you off, it is hard to determine sometimes that someone is suffering from psychosis as they can mask it, though you’re clewrly aware of hallucinations . A GP cannot diagnose psychosis - it needs a psychiatrist . Treatment for psychosis illness is very different form any other potential issues, so needs a proper diagnosis to rule in or out.

if they’ve ruled out both delerium, and psychosis and any other factors like CBD, and have done at least a basic neurological scan to check for tumours or anything more sinister , then dementia is really what ends up being most likely by a matter of elimination. They can’t prove dementia. Specialist scans MAY pick up the deposits in the brain to give a positive diagnosis, but for many it won’t anyway, even if they have dementia. So a diagnosis it will be based on symptoms and balance of probability.

my dad was eventually diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia. It took 9 months to do that and eliminate all the other things (becuase he also was going blind, and had various UTIs which is common with LBD as well due to progressive incontinence which he was not telling anyone about )

main characteristic in diagnosis of that , vs other dementia, was that there was a lack of memory loss , but he was confused over his current time and place, he had visual hallucinations, delusional (especially paranoia), and crucially he had massive REM sleep disturbance.

sadly this illness is best, imhe, described as grotesque. Outcome is bleak in terms of quality of life. He was on deprevation of liberty fairly quickly, then sectioned under 117, (which was actually was best thing that happened as got him proper diagnosis and proper nursing support vs just care support ). He got increasingly agressive and violent (he was never before), but sadly was well aware he wasn’t at home and wanted to go home, was depressed and miserable in being in a care/nursing home . He lived just 2 years. Frankly it was a blessing it wasn’t longer. 💔. In total he’d lived in his home with worsening, but benign symptoms for ,we think now, around 2 years, before it went downhill fast and he was admitted to hospital.

I would also add some caution about you trying to explain to him his hallucinations aren’t real. I have experienced dad’s visual hallucinations and delusions, but was also with my exh for 20 years with diagnosis of psychotic illness and he heard voices and had paranoid delusions. I find it enormously helpful to know that peopel experiencing hallucinations aren’t “imagining” it. Literally the brains neurons are firing incorrectly, and activating parts of brain responsible for external auditory or visual stimuli. They ARE literally seeing and hearing things - they are being processed in the brain in SAME way as your voice speaking to them, or them seeing you for real. No amount of you trying to convince them will change it. Just confuse and terrify them more.
people who are hallucinating or delusional are usually frightened, and stress makes matters worse. Best way to approach dealing with it is though gentle validation …ask them to explain what they’re seeing, ask them why they think what they are thinking, reassure them, try to find what’s really stressing and worrying them and reassure or help them to eliminate that concern. Getting them to validate what they’re seeing or hearing often helps them understand it isn’t real. I did used to say to dad that his brain was playing tricks on him very occasionally in situations when he was sort of aware it might be, but mostly he’d not have been reassured by that. The other approach is distraction…if it is LBD there’s not much wrong with memory so get them focusing on happier past memories, make them think about something else etc.

I found, in both looking after my exh and my dad, that it was helpful to think about delusions and hallucinations as “conscious dreaming”. When you are dreaming everything you see and hear is real to you in that moment, you don’t actively think you are dreaming. However bizarre it is. REM sleep paralysis is there for a reason to stop us acting out these bizarre and possibly dangerous dreams . If you think of what would happen if you were conscious and dreaming how chaotic and dangerous it would be, and someone telling you it wasn’t real is not exactly going to help that , then you probably getting closer to understand what’s going on in their heads.

my big advice is get LPOA in place urgently if it’s not too late. A matter of priority. And establish who is “nearest relative” officially under mental health act , if needed.And If at any point they feel need to section him, don’t fight it. In fact push for it if needed, It is the best thing to ensure the right services are put in place.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. My life has been deeply affected by looking after two men I loved dearly being impacted by delusions and hallucinations and it is the most extraordinary difficult thing to deal with. LBD is awful, as I said, but for us mercifully quick. Make sure you look after you whatever happens, in practice is very little you can do to help, sadly.

frogpigdonkey · 26/08/2025 20:21

hello all- wanted to update and also say thank you all for your kindness and sharing your heartfelt stories. They have touched me deeply and I’m so sorry for everyone who has been through this.

the social services team has assessed him and recommended daily carers twice a day and an assessment of his mental state. Am still struggling to get the doctors to accelerate because he isn’t willing (still thinks nothing is wrong). Meanwhile the delusions continue and he veers from happy about them to distress because he doesn’t understand why the things he thinks he’s planned aren’t happening. As suggested by several of you I haven’t tried to persuade him he’s imagining it but am still stuck until I can get him assessed by the doctors. Social services have been great and I’ve got another call with them tomorrow- they have been liaising with police because his ex wife reported him for harassment so they have the whole picture- I’m hoping they might have some suggestions on how to accelerate the medical process, otherwise I’m stuck waiting for the blood test appointment. The only good thing about that is that he is aware of it and willing to go to that one. What a mess. I’ve been quite upset today- hearing the social services view was upsetting but also helpful because it tells me I’m not overreacting. But the last few days have really brought home how unwell he is and what a road we have in front of us, even in a best case scenario where it’s an infection or similar.

OP posts:
singthing · 26/08/2025 20:36

I've had 2 close relatives hallucinate, and for both of them, it was quite near the end, I'm sorry. Neither had any dementia or other urine issue etc.

One of them seemed quite content about the people (multiple) she could see living up in the high corner of her room and would chat amiably to and about them. The other would ask what xyz was over there, but when you reassured them xyz was not there would be ok with that too.

Neither were distressed by it, so as woo as it sounds, I like to think the people were known or somehow "known" to be kind and not harmful.

BCBird · 26/08/2025 20:42

SunsetCocktails · 11/08/2025 20:06

I would definitely get him checked for water infection, delusions and hallucinations are extremely common with those.

I agree. I've heard these can.make people behave oddly OP.

lljkk · 26/08/2025 20:48

Thanks for update OP. Hang in there & look after yourself.

frogpigdonkey · 31/08/2025 21:35

Another update- he’s been admitted to hospital tonight, which is a relief but also upsetting. I was with him on Thursday and we arranged his visits with the carers which he was open to and happy about. His delusions continued though and I was unable to persuade the doctors to accelerate the assessment process. He became very paranoid and was convinced someone stole his keys yesterday. Called the police, who sent someone who called a doctor, and he recommended immediate admission and assessment. Dad was quite happy about this as he knew something was wrong and was starting to distrust his memory and be quite upset. Not sure he understands the full implications but I’m relieved he will be properly checked over and is fully in the system. Have no criticisms of the carers or the social workers at all, quite the reverse, but it’s frustrating that their experience and observations don’t seem to carry much weight in the medical assessments. The doctor who was with him seemed very on the ball and asked lots of pertinent questions so hopefully he’s in the right place to get fully assessed.

OP posts:
Florencesndzebedee · 31/08/2025 22:53

At least you know the medical tests will start now and that he’s being monitored. They’ll want to rule out a Uti first and other derangements.

It could be a resurfacing of his mental health condition or a dementia. Hopefully this will be the start of the assessments and testing but you may be in for a bit of a volatile time whilst whatever condition he has is diagnosed. Once that happens, social services should be able to formulate a plan with him and you.

Thingamebobwotsit · 01/09/2025 08:20

Ladamesansmerci · 13/08/2025 18:24

I'm an older adult mental health nurse. Sounds like delirium. Use the PINCH ME tool.

P-pain
I- infection
N- food intake
C- constipation
H- hydration
M- medication (any recent changes, or strong meds like steroids/tramadol)
E- changes to environment

All of these are significant factors in delirium.

It is not necessarily LBD. Hallucinations happen in other types and delirium. Delirum is typically an acute change in presentation. Capacity and cognition will fluctuate, and one moment someone may seem normal, and the next may be behaving very oddly indeed.

He needs a physical health review. You also need to go back to your GP and request they expedite it through CMHT. It's too complex for MAS. I'm CMHT and we triage referrals. I would not send this to MAS as it's complicated by his Schizophrenia history, which can also affect memory. Antipsychotics can also affect memory if he's on those. He needs more than MAS.

If you think he needs social care, I'd advise you to refer him. If you don't feel comfortable, you can ask the GP to do it. Whether they will will depend on whether he has capacity, which is a legal term relating whether someone can weigh up information, retain it, and make a decision.

Edited

Thanks for coming on to say this.

I was about to say something similar not as articulate as this though.

@frogpigdonkey you need a referral urgently. Armchair diagnoses from well meaning family members meant my DM did not get the help she needed when she needed it and she has been left with life altering issues. Hallucinations / delirium are very common in older people and can have multiple causes including many different types of dementia.

Thingamebobwotsit · 01/09/2025 08:24

@frogpigdonkey apologies just clocked your update. Sorry to hear he is in hospital but at least he will be assessed properly.

frogpigdonkey · 01/09/2025 09:00

Thanks @Thingamebobwotsit and yes I agree. The frustration has been not being able to get an assessment despite notes from me and social services attesting to his deteriorating grip on reality. It’s a shame it took the police to get here. The process was quite interesting in that they called an ambulance, then it was changed to a community visit but meant a doctor went to his flat and saw how he was living and how confused he was and recommended the immediate admission. I talked to the doc a couple of times and he was talking about a lot of tests that have been referenced here.

I’ve had some guilt because despite talking to docs and social services I couldn’t get him the help he needed. Hoping he will get it now.

thanks all for the advice and solidarity. It’s been a huge help.

OP posts:
Thingamebobwotsit · 01/09/2025 09:12

frogpigdonkey · 01/09/2025 09:00

Thanks @Thingamebobwotsit and yes I agree. The frustration has been not being able to get an assessment despite notes from me and social services attesting to his deteriorating grip on reality. It’s a shame it took the police to get here. The process was quite interesting in that they called an ambulance, then it was changed to a community visit but meant a doctor went to his flat and saw how he was living and how confused he was and recommended the immediate admission. I talked to the doc a couple of times and he was talking about a lot of tests that have been referenced here.

I’ve had some guilt because despite talking to docs and social services I couldn’t get him the help he needed. Hoping he will get it now.

thanks all for the advice and solidarity. It’s been a huge help.

We went through similar. Unfortunately if the GP / medical team views the individual as having capacity there is very little you can do until it reaches the point of crisis. The system is incredibly poor at prevention and at picking up issues early enough, both in terms of the legal framework, capacity within the health care and social care teams, and wrap around support. I really feel for you.

Keep pushing for the best care while in hospital and on discharge. It is all you can do.

Limehawkmoth · 01/09/2025 19:48

Just seen your update. Be prepared for it maybe taking months to rule delirium and psychosis in BC or out. It’s a long haul. Please don’t feel bad you couldn’t get intervention before it need in police coming out. Unfortunately that is true for almost everyone…my dad had police and fire brigade round multiple times and even then services slow to react sadly. As others have said it takes a lot to get teams to agree mental competency is lacking . Quite rightly

Do keep an eye out about anyone wanting to transfer him to adult mental heath word for o”obsercation”- absolute hell and in my CV experience no one observes anything …care is given in loosest sense from care staff and not CPN who could actually do decent observation over shorter period. In my experience it was just somewhere to bc shove Dad and just wait and see. 7 months on those wards. Very sad.

as I said before, you must also take care of you . You are not qualified or capable of providing care for him

Flowerpower456 · 01/09/2025 20:31

I am a memory assessor nurse working in NHS memory clinic. Some advice I can offer based on the description of your dad would be to ring the memory clinic direct. We have a triage system where people on the waiting list ( varies place to place but sadly can be several months) can ring with more significant concerns such as hallucinations and abusive behaviours towards others, and request an expedited appt. Alternatively get back in contact with GP who can make an urgent referral to your local older persons intensive support team ( bit like a crisis team for older adults)
I hope you and your dad can get the support you both need as promptly as possible.

cabbageking · 01/09/2025 20:39

Sometimes it can happen if they are not eating enough.