How do you keen track of admin etc under POA

[Navigatingchaos]

Hi all,

I’m increasingly finding I am managing my mother’s affairs and supporting her in navigating admin around finances etc following my father’s death last year. I’ve keep track of my dealings with his estate etc since then

However, in dealing with benefits applications etc for my Mum, I am wondering how much info you need to keep on everything you do in case you need to refer back to it/provide details etc? I’m about to enact POA with her bank and it made me wonder how people keep track of all of this? Do you ever need to have records of conversations you’ve had with benefits phone lines etc to provide details to organisations? I’m keeping a record of all discussions and actions in my phone but fear that may get a tad confused as time goes on!

Just wondering what works for others.
thanks.

I keep a notebook, all correspondence, all receipts. It’s an onerous task and takes up to two hours a week depending on what’s going on. All of it unpaid! I have files and folders of paperwork. All this was done on the advice of the bank and a solicitor as my previous (slightly chaotic) method was “questionable” apparently!

Essentially you want to make it as easy as possible for future you to find evidence that you did everything properly if you were to be questioned on it in the future.

I'm sure you won't be, but just keep that in mind - make everything as easy to find as possible, filing it by date.

I would personally want a big lever arch file with dividers by month, don't keep it on your phone as if you lose the phone you're jiggered.

I kept a record of conversations with social services/care services etc in an online journal so I could refer back to them. Simplenote is pretty good (free, basic) if you want to use a journal.

In terms of the actual financial transactions, there was always some kind of online or paper record.

I never needed to provide any of this to anyone, but it was useful so I could refer back to it.

I don’t. I have POA online banking with digital statements. For anything else, I keep emails and receipts.

I had to provide statements of all her accounts and outgoings going back 3 months to social services recently and it took me a whole week. Everything was available online though.

We have 3 lever arch files. One contains POA and bank stuff, one anything to do with the house (water/power/insurance/phone etc) and one pensions/benefits/ council.

MIL is now in a nursing home, so we have started a new one, but the house one is "parked" as it has been sold, everything cancelled, but waiting for refunds, clearance etc.

Pension credit is the big one that will drain every hour god sends. Every change of circumstance must be notified. And it takes a bloody hour to get through on the phone sometimes.

Notebook with all phone calls recorded in it - date, time, who you spoke to (name and job title), bullet points of what discussed. I kept them all in one notebook but could separate out into
medical, financial etc?
Any emails kept in a folder within email client for this purpose.
It’s very hard to get the banks and building societies to do this, but I tried to avoid any that were insisting on “paperless” as it was so much harder to keep track of for someone else. Especially when they’d insisted on opening 100s of bank accounts to chase tiny changes in interest rates!
And setting aside a chunk of time weekly to deal with it was easier than dealing with bits and bobs as letters or emails arrived.

POA is less onerous than deputyship thank goodness as you probably won’t be questioned, but obviously you should make sure that if needed you can demonstrate what you are doing and why. I started by keeping records of every transaction but realised at some point that bank statements would be fine. I’ve put Mum’s accounts to paperless but her bank (Barclays) will let you download and print statements if you need them. I would keep records of gifts if you are going to make any in her best interests (eg if she always gave a tenner to grandchildren at Christmas and you think it’s in her interests to continue that) as I expect to need to evidence any gifts she made in the 7 years prior to her eventual death for inheritance tax purposes. But tbh her affairs are incredibly simple, she rationalised everything a year or so before her stroke so I’m very lucky there.

This keeps popping up on my Facebook feed. It seems to be a platform that's just what you're looking for. I can't vouch for it as my POA days are over. But it might be worth a look.

Ordli.
https://www.instagram.com/ordli.uk?igsh=dWtvdzM4ZnBteGsz

Funnily enough, pension credit was who I was on the phone to when I realised I needed to ask this question today! I’m pretty organised and on top of things in my own life so I have been a bit taken aback by how crazy the paperwork seems for this!

Thanks everyone. I think I need to up my game from one lever arch file and notes on my phone/separate email address to something a bit more substantial looking at all of your suggestions. Thank you all!

Thankfully (in some ways) there’s only me so no siblings trying to muddle things up but it seems to pile up and take far too much of my time!

I have POA, and recently lost my dad. I have siblings, who also have POA, but they don't help at all. They do, however, like to inspect and check I'm doing it correctly.

I keep a lever arch file, sub divided for every little topic. Each subject has an A4 sheet at the front so I can date and bullet point any action taken, and what I'm waiting for.

They review my efforts and are more critical than any tax official.

I don't have a set time. Evening visits allow me to file anything new. Phone calls have to wait for my next day off.

It's relentless, but I couldn't cope with keeping it all on my phone. There's just too much.

I try to view it all as a privilege. I love my parents beyond measure. This attitude offsets the worry of it all a little.

Spreadsheets in my case (Deputyship), with everything else saved electronically. Paper based receipts photographed and stored electronically too. I try not to keep paperbased copies if I can help it, I have enough of my own paperwork.

If I can run a business electronically and it is good enough for HMRC, I figure Court of Protection can cope. Everything is coded so I can filter and search the spreadsheet. Documents on the computer are filed as meticulously as I would with paperwork and by financial years. If anyone questions it they are most welcome to trawl through it all.

I try and stay on top of it as it comes in, so a little and often and I try to keep it to a couple of hours a week. That way I don't get overwhelmed with it all. The bit I find the hardest is having to deal with "officials" or clinical staff who only really work 9 to 5. I am finding that, plus full time work, plus my own responsibilities extremely tough. I have a job that isn't flexible and takes me away from home a lot. The paperwork I can at least do in a hotel room if needed.

@Notinmylifethyme why are you allowing your siblings to do none of the actual work but to scrutinise and critique your record keeping? They are not your boss. Tell them to pull their weight, if they don't trust you to carry out your responsibilities maybe they can take over some of them!

@maslinpan They're just unpleasant. They've always been the same. My parents knew it, and were disappointed with them.

Before he died, my dad asked me to look after my mum. I'm more than happy to do so.

I've had to sacrifice a drawer in my filing cabinet. And 100 Mb on my hard drive and a chunk of my iCloud storage.

I keep emails. And a running to do list where I tick off the stuff I've done and periodically archive the old ones.

Money they owe me (and siblings) I enter onto split wise and use the app to record payment back too. I download and save the spreadsheets periodically from there. Now I have a card on their account I tend to just use that unless it's a really big sum where consumer protection would be useful in which case I use my credit card and get paid back.

It's a thankless unrewarding task that I had no idea would be so onerous. But hey, I agreed to it and older family member I respected and loved would be pleased I'm doing it but my love for the elderly person I care for (EPICF) diminishes by small cuts every time they make a shit decision or say something thoughtless.

Latest was telling the care home staff I was horrible to them so they have raised a safe guarding flag. Admittedly I was not at my most tactful that day as EPICF and I were discussing the same thing for the third time that week (they don't rememember either of the two earlier conversations). I was tired having had a busy day at work and EPICF was not backing down despite me telling them this. So I told them quite bluntly that they couldn't go out unaccompanied for their own good as we think the getting lost/ not being able to cope/ falling risk is now too high.

I'm also having to project manage repairs to their house as they didn't do anything for 50 years and then the ceiling fell in. EPICF is trying to micromanage me doing this. Which as they did zippo for so long is really infuriating. And in the same week they told their bloody friend that I wasn't keeping them up to date with what was going on so the friend messaged me to remind me it's still EPICF's house and that they were concerned I was making decisions unilaterally (I have PoA, and the second attorney has actually been involved in all the decision making). I also have a paper trail of messages/ emails with updates to EPICF. It's just that they don't remember. The friend and I have discussed before how poor EPICF's memory is.

Of course, It's easier for EPICF to blame me not telling them than to admit to their friend that their memory is shot. So if friend goes off on a tangent that could be two concerns raised in one week. Neither justified.

I'm a doctor so having safeguarding concerns raised is really serious for me professionally. Urgh.

Just sending some strength @BeaTwix - and a thank you for the methods you use.

Your relative is so similar to my father, blaming others and throwing accusations about. See also the lack of executive function, no maintenance on his house for decades but full of how he’d do it if it’s actually us who have to do things.

Definitely leverarch files with divides and colour coded pockets that close that you can put in receipts/odd letters that don’t fit into whatever categories you already have ie utilities, benefits, personal shopping, regular outgoings.
it does make sense to print out bank statements as you go or in bulk every year, quarter. A lot of purchases are clear on those. Simplify every thing ie same gas and electric, to pay quarterly if you can, condense bank accounts if there are lots, do quarterly shopping for clothes/tolietries, as much as is feasible if funds allow for bulk buying. And a paper diary to note when calls of significant things happen. Date receipts in pen as they occur.
I did get a court visitor/inspection - it’s either random or you go on a list after a certain time - wasn’t due to any query or suspicion.
She didn’t go through with a fine tooth comb and was friendly and helpful re queries such as agreeing DM could donate winter fuel allowance to a charity that I knew she’d been involved with previously.
Unless money is v tight, spending a bit to make the admin as easy as possible is worth it at the beginning ie get the stationery.
While my finances/bills were all online, it is useful to go fully paper for POA stuff as if there are any problems you can immediately provide the paper evidence.

I’m keeping paper / electronic records of all financial dealings, but I haven’t been keeping records of when I call people etc on their behalf eg doctors, carers etc. Shiuld I be? I am usually trying to get something resolved but measure this by whether it has happened or not it eg chasing up prescriptions.