Dealing with parents who hate each other but refuse to divorce

[Om83]

My parents are mid 70’s and have so much contempt for each other it is a very toxic environment. Communication has broken down to a point that is irreparable (other than a few days of civility before it blows up again)

they won’t divorce or live separately- they both love their home where they have been for 35 years and the thought of living somewhere much smaller /worse / starting again is not appealing as is dividing possessions and finances- too overwhelming. Mums attitude is that one of them will be dead soon so live in misery until then… she is desperately unhappy and has mentioned suicide but says she won’t do it as a bad example to set to the grandkids😬

they also want to keep up the pretence of being ‘together’ for family gatherings, but the contempt often bubbles over into barbed comments to each other in front of us all, or one of them will refuse to come because of an argument they’ve had so they are not getting the most out of that arrangement… We used to go on family holidays, and my kids still ask can we all go away together but mum refuses to spend time away with my dad, and I imagine hard to keep up the ‘pretence’ for that long.

they have both done things to hurt each other over the years, so hard to now say who is right or wrong. I used to try to mediate between them, point out different perspectives etc but they are very much stuck in their ways with no willingness to change on either side. I find it upsetting and dread seeing them as it’s so toxic, so have pulled back a little to preserve my own sanity and avoid seeing them where I can, I feel sick when I see my mum calling me as I know it’s an onslaught of rage against my dad.

everything I suggest re counselling (together and solo), mediation, even telling them to divorce with my blessing makes no difference. They do not ‘believe’ in talking to a stranger about their problems or how it could possibly help resolve anything. I’m trying to accept their relationship is down to them and not in my power to change but awful to see them make each other so unhappy, when they could have another 10-20 yrs ahead like this!

Mum doesn’t have anyone else to talk to so off loads about my dad onto me… it has definitely soured my relationship with my dad and we are not very close anymore as I feel like I am betraying my mum even though I can see that she is partly to blame in some situations and says the most horrible things about him. It does help her to off load and she is aware that I find it difficult, she says tries not to but as I said has no one else and will not even consider counselling- it does seem to diffuse her temper by offloading and with the threat of suicide she def needs to release some of her emotions.

I don’t know what to do. They are both in ok health, my dad has a few more issues but are controlled with medications, he drinks too much so will prob be him to go first, unless mum cracks and kills herself before then… I can’t believe I’m even thinking like that and the guilt of thinking that and knowing that I can’t fix it and they will die in misery is too much…

have I missed any other options to help them?
do I just leave them to it??

anyone else been in this situation and how did you handle it?

You need to leave them to it and stop being so involved in your parents marraige. They've made the decision to remain together, so they have to live with the consequences. Next time your mother brings it up you simply tell her that if she's unhappy she has other options and that if she wants to explore them you'll be more than happy to help buy until then you can't

Your parents are anti therapy but your mum is fine using you as an unpaid therapist, from your post. Sack it off, OP. The phone calls? As soon as she starts on the rage dumping, tell her that you’re not calling to hear about that if she’s not willing to do anything about it. If she persists, the conversation is over.

You can’t make them make good decisions. You can’t help them be happy. The only way you can control this situation is to control how you react to it. And sadly, that may mean fewer meetings and phone calls. They sound totally toxic and selfish.

Oh and threatening suicide repeatedly is a form of emotional abuse.

Fwiw, I have in laws like this, and like you, I tried to help - until it dawned on me that it was taking up my thoughts and energy and making me stressed. I now don’t bother. I’ll be polite if they call, but it’s up to them , they’re both adults.

My parents are similar. It's a terrible thing to do to your children and negatively effects them for the rest of their lives. If they are anything like mine, they won't even have the ability to acknowledge it. Much of my mother's anger towards my father has gone now because he is ill and the end is in sight.

PP advice is right that you have to try to find a way to step back. Unfortunately that might mean that your mother transfers her rage at you while you are doing that. You then have to remove yourself from that rage ie tell her the call is over and hang up the phone.

You might want to have a look at the role dysfunctional families force children into. It can help you understand. Do you think your parents have personality disoorders btw? Sounds like they might. Again, it can help you understand. But any thing you do now should be for you. Don't let them drag you in to their toxic, co-dependent mess of a marriage any longer. You might find therapy helps although you'll need to find the right therapist. Unless you have proper training or have lived it yourself, it's hard to understand the devastating effect it has on people.

Also agree with romdowa and emmaavery.

You have to be firm with your mum. Tell her you're happy to chat with her but you absolutely won't listen to her offloading about your dad any more. It's her choice not to separate but it's your choice not to be her unpaid therapist. As soon as she starts, butt in with a "stop right there" and suggest changing the subject or ending the call/visit.

you might find the Mel Robbins ‘let them’ approach helpful for you to disengage

Op I've been in a similar situation with my parents. All I could do was change the subject when my mum started on about my dad. If that didn't work I would say my son needed me and call back another time. Sorry you are going through this but the only salvation for you is to step right back x

Boundaries boundaries boundaries. Mum I want to support you but I can’t keep talking to you about your marriage as I am your child and while dad isn’t perfect he’s my father and I wouldn’t let him criticise you consistently. I’m happy to support you with speaking to your gp though so we can find someone for you to talk to. And repeat, often, until she stops doing it. And in social gatherings when they are being inappropriate. Mum and dad I think it’s best if you get off if you’re struggling to be around each other and behave in a polite and civil way. Thanks for coming. Hopefully next time we see you it will go better.

Agree with all previous posters. It's their problem and they are adults. They know what the options are and they aren't taking them. Say you don't wish to hear about it anymore. Ignore the suicide threats - more likely emotional blackmail than genuine.

"It's her choice not to separate but it's your choice not to be her unpaid therapist. "

You are feeling responsible, but YOU HAVE NO POWER SO YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY. As everyone says, boundaries. You can't help them, they won't let you. You can however help yourself. What your mother is/parents are, but sounds like your mother is subjecting you to most of the active mistreatment) doing to you is exceptionally selfish and 100% shit. Don't sit there and take it.

Thanks, yes @FinallyHere I have recently read ‘let them’ which is why I think it’s dawning on me I need to step back. Just very hard to.

def some personality disorders- mum sees things v black and white, there is no other way but hers, holds grudges (didn’t speak to her mum and extended family for about 10yrs), flies off the handle at the smallest slight (GP said something vaguely dismissive about age once to her so they are blacklisted) but I can see she is hurting. Dad I think is a narcissist, can never be wrong, refuses to apologise, lacks empathy, no care for her.

they didn’t always have this relationship- he worked abroad a lot when I was growing up so I think the distance helped! Made mum very self sufficient but since they have been retired he just gets in her way and tells her how to do things she’s been doing her whole life.

it’s hard to put up boundaries as I don’t know how to deal with mum turning her rage on me, and if she doesn’t have me then I feel she will do something awful to herself as her life will have no love/comfort.

part of me is starting to distance myself from that responsibility - let them def helps- if she does decide suicide is the way out, it is HER decision. I’m not fully there yet though. I will look into therapy for myself…

Re the suicide threats, that’s emotional abuse to keep threatening like that. Years ago I had a friend who did this - called 999 once after yet another fraught conversation. They sent an ambulance. She was extremely embarrassed and furious to have to discuss it with medical professionals but it did stop the threats.

I haven’t been in your situation with parents, but I do use grey rock with mine when the conversation gets fraught. Or follow through with natural consequences as I did with 999 and my friend!

It is often advised on here that if someone atarts talking about suicide, to call 999.
You are not an MH professional OP. I think you are, however a victim of prolonged abuse and it is possible that therapy would really help you.

Cross post with @EmotionalBlackmail !

Your mum sounds pretty narcissistic to me @Om83 They certainly sound like narcissistic traits, NPD being quite rare.
She sounds like she has you in her grip as well. Your dad will be hurting too.
I am not suggesting you need to support him, just try to free yourself from your mother's grip. Could your dad be autistic?

@redboxer321and @Holidazeyand @shellyleppardsorry you have experienced this too, and @redboxer321that your dad is now ill, its an awful feeling to look forward to this point… hope that your mum gets a new lease of life afterwards…

thanks for all the advice what to say and how to handle everyone.

I can’t imagine putting my kids through this type of thing and I think that is the difference I’m starting to realise. It has been a good talking point with my kids however of what a bad relationship looks like and why you shouldn’t stay when you are so unhappy with the situation!!

I think the only thing you can do is sit them down (either together or separately) and tell them you don’t want to hear it or witness it any more. So they need to pretend. If they won’t do the responsible thing of divorcing or therapy, then they owe it to you to be protect you from it. It sounds very hard OP, you have my sympathies.

I can really sympathise it’s really tough to deal with plus all the issues with them getting older too. Decide on some boundaries and stick to them. I can really sympathise with you as it makes me feel so sad that my mum is unhappy in her old age, but I can’t change her decisions.
My mums a similar age and unhappy in her marriage to my stepdad. He’s actually mellowed with age but she’s just very angry about not leaving when she was younger. They have always had a pretty shit relationship.
My mum has started to suddenly tell anyone who would listen all her problems and I started dreaded seeing her, but recently I lost it with her and said she either leaves (she won’t) or needs to get counselling and stop unloading everything on me. She’s been close to leaving a few times but never has.
My mum has been quite shocked I’ve put in boundaries, I’m a complete people pleaser because of my upbringing. I was so fed up with my mum turning everything around on everyone else but her.
An earlier poster mentioned Mel Robinsons let me book. I’m half way through and I am finding it very helpful.
Its such a tricky situation all around, try and disengage as much as possible x

Oh, OP it's horrible isn't it. I was DM's sounding board after divorce, and DF to a lesser extent.
I eventually managed to say "I don't want to talk about this any more" I was probably in my early 20s and had been listening to it for over 10 years. That was a really hard thing for me to do, but I'm so glad I did.
You do just have to Let Them as Mel says. You can't fix them, and you'll make yourself ill trying.

What @LurkyMcLurkinson said. Great post.

Consider getting some talking therapy for yourself too…

Sounds like you've had a massive wake up call recently OP and good for you. I have absolutely boatloads of sympathy for you. My situation with my parents is very similar indeed. It sounds like you have been carrying this load as your mother's unpaid therapist for your whole adult life (at least). It's utterly miserable and soul destroying, and you need to put a stop to it as others have said

I found psychodynamic psychotherapy extremely helpful - it's a mode of therapy that looks at the impact of your past on your present. From your posts, it sounds like you have been well trained by your mother to consider her needs before your own. That's a lifetime of conditioning, and you can't undo it all by yourself. Having professional support to really understand the impact of your parents relationship on you will be invaluable

My therapist suggested to me that even though my own parents relationship is miserable, toxic, emotionally abusive, codependent etc, they are still both getting something out of it. Living like this is fulfilling a need for them in some messed up way. You have nothing to feel guilty for

I’ve been there. And still am, sort of.

I know how easy it is as a stranger to give advice telling you to “set some boundaries”, “take a huge step back”. I also know it’s so difficult to do that when you’re emotionally involved, in the thick of it, dealing with two dysfunctional parents and trying to cut off emotional dumping phonecalls, etc.

Now that one of my parents is in a care home, everyone seems to be suddenly pretending that they had many happy years together, and the other parent is and always has been a devoted, and now a heartbroken spouse. A long drawn out illness is giving me too much time to think and reflect and remember how things really were. It’s a head wrecker for sure. Some days I feel like screaming.

I think I unconsciously chose or built a relationship with my DH that is the complete opposite to what I was modelled. And one thing is for sure, DH and I have never and will never put our child through this.

Now that one of my parents is in a care home, everyone seems to be suddenly pretending that they had many happy years together, and the other parent is and always has been a devoted, and now a heartbroken spouse.

That's what I'm expecting.
I think there's lots of well meaning advice on here but if you have lived experience of it, you know it wouldn't work.
I mean, sitting your parents down and telling them you are not going to listen to them any more will likely only lead to them uniting against you and gaslighting you.
Not meant to criticise anyone, just to say it's a more difficult problem than it might appear.