Managing difficult family - care home

[Lastknownaddress]

Is there any legal basis on which extended family members can insist on clinical updates from a care home?

I am managing quite a difficult situation at the moment with M who moved into a care home a few months back. We don't habe a gpod relationship and it has been a difficult few months but I am extremely pleased with the care she is getting.

There is no LPA in place and as I am an only child I am finding myself pulled into acting as technical point of contact. This has been better than I thought it would as the care team around M is great and very supportive. The issue is her very difficult siblings. The family dynamics are incredibly toxic and they demanding detailed updates, and when these aren't available causing me no end of issues.

What is the legal position if I don't update them? Can they go to the care home? As I understand it I have no responsibility towards them at all. But what can the care home update them on? They are not listed as NoK.

Dear aunt fanny, there is no change in mum's condition. I'll keep the family informed of anything they need to know.
And repeat

Thanks @LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand I suppose I was wondering if there was a world where I don't have to update them at all. I don't want to go into specifics but I have tried that and the issues are escalating.

Does your mum have capacity? If so she can decide whether the care home can directly tell updates to her relatives.

If she has no capacity have her family caused difficulties for her in the past or do they pose a threat? If so then have a discussion with the care home about what would be in her best interest. If you all decide it’s ok for them to have information/access then they can go directly to the care home and you won’t have to reply. If you decide they shouldn’t have access you can still direct them to the care home but they won’t be told anything. If it becomes a serious problem they can refer to the Safeguarding team to assist.

Maybe suggest they visit her in person to see how she is themselves. It's a common problem. Is your mother capable of telephone conversations? You can have an exclusive landline installed in her room.

If your mother consents to giving them updates, then the care home staff can talk to them. Although it sounds like they're difficult people and I'd be wary of them pissing of the care home staff.

Can you suggest to them they go visit your mother? Can you block them?

Thanks @Funnyduck60 @wheretoyougonow She doesn't have capacity to make decisions about her care. And yes they are visiting. This hassle is designed purely to annoy me. They are quite capable of asking the care home for updates. They don't pose a threat as such but they have caused issues with getting M the right care in the past so I don't want them interfering. Equally (and judging by a recent action) I think they are quite capable of making a complaint against me, and although it would not stand up to scrutiny could make life unnecessarily difficult in the process. I have been trying to de-escalate this but to no avail.

When my MIL was in a care home (for assessment) the home was clear they wanted one contact to give updates to, to call in emergency , for data privacy. MIL was being assessed for capacity among other things, and DH had LPA, so it was straight forward.

MIL had other family visit and she had her mobile phone so could receive calls ( she lacked capacity to make them).

It’s rough on you - how do they contact you - calls? Can they text or use what’s app? If you are the contact then I think you can give them a set time to call - say once a week- or more frequently if the situation demands - and then block them at other times so they don’t disturb you..

As pp suggested, if there are safeguarding concerns, the home can generally be helpful

Sorry, did not see your update.

Ignore them. If they legally have PoA they can get updates from the care home. If they don't, they don't need them!

Just ignore. You have no legal obligation to update them

Thanks everyone again. Have been stressing about this for a few days. I don't want to say more on a public forum in case it goes further. They have been blocked from contacting me except via email for a few months so I would have a paper trail.

This stuff is hard enough without having to worry what is coming round the corner. In no other set of circumstances would they have access to someone's medical records so I don't see why they are trying here.

I think I need to speak to the home.

Well technically they could apply for welfare deputyship but that’s hard to get and unlikely they’d get one without due cause. If your mum lacks capacity to consent to having her information shared, the care home will decide whether it’s in her best interests to disclose information to family members, and how much information to disclose. You could talk to the care home about their policies on this so you know where you (and your tricky relatives) stand.

My DMiL was in a care home and lacked capacity. The only people who visited her apart from me and 2 of her DS were 2 of her DGC (she had 7). My DH was the point of contact and his DBros left him to it to keep them informed when necessary.
Both the DGC, who visited, worked in a medical/care capacity so they were given permission, by my DH, to ask about her treatment etc and the care home were happy to speak to them. On the odd occasion she had other visitors they were directed to my DH if they wanted to know what was going on! Luckily, this didn’t happen often.

How ridiculously stressful for you.

I don't quite see what the pattern of issues is, but can relate 100% to the unexpected stresses arising from managing other family members even once someone is being cared for full time.

I find it easiest to think in terms of my mum's best interests, and then what was actually achievable - those are your only respjnsibolities imo.

Would you in an ideal world stop them visiting? Do they upset her, make her agitated etc? Or does she benefit from the visits in some way? That's stage 1.

Then would she benefit in some way if they understood more about her condition- is there at least a chance that they might eg turn up at a better time of day for her, take in appropriate snacks instead of stuff she can't eat? Then there's an argument for eg a life book/information folder in her room labelled 'All About "Name"' which you could develop with the home, so that anyone who can visit and is willing to read it can find out more. If there are changes, you could update it. Then for any questions, just point them towards that book or the nursing home. That's stage 2.

Then ultimately you are her only daughter and her main family support. It is not in her best interests for you to be stressed out or dreading visiting. Take action accordingly, eg making sure you pick days and times to visit when others don't if you can, take their visits as a chance for a break. Stage 3.

The nursing home manager should be a good support with this. In my view these wider family/conflicting views issues are more normal than not - they will have seen it all before.

Yes they could but I don't think they will. None of this is genuinely about M's welfare. It is all about a very toxic family dynamic across that generation which they are lashing out at me about. I don't think I had realised how bad it was, nor how much resentment they all have. I suspect there is some "inheritance" issues brewing too which is a bridge I will cross when we get there and will be what it will be.

If they wanted Deputyship they could have applied for it earlier in the year, or now. It wouldn't be an issue for me.

Tbh my experience is that people turn up with intrusive questions once there's no danger of them actually being asked to help, hence why they pop up once someone is in fulltime care

Thank you. Lots of really great ideas here. I will speak to the home re: the all about me book. Stage 1 and 3 I thought we had got sorted and an agreement on. They have always been able to ask the care home for information and call to check in. I haven't prohibited any visits, information flows etc. What they don't do, is talk to the medical team as they wanted a single point of contact. I provide that and send updates over as they occur. And I don't think it adds anything to M's best interests to have them know everything as they catastrophise everything.

Apparently this is not frequent enough for them. But I am driven by the assessment and review process timelines. It is not mine to dictate.

As I say, I think this is some family psychodrama playing out.

As there is no poa are you going to apply for deputiship, would it be worth arranging a meeting with them, the carehome manager and yourself.

I don’t think it’s worth going through the headache of OP applying for deputyship if her relationship with the care home is good. It wouldn’t give her the legal right to stop other relatives from visiting or asking intrusive questions. @Lastknownaddress sounds like you are doing a great job in a tricky situation. If malicious referrals are being made and it’s very clear to see that they are baseless (e.g: care manager or staff would back up the fact that your behaviour is reasonable and you’re generally acting in your mum’s best interests) then I would try not to worry. Easier said than done but ultimately they’re not going to get anywhere.

I am so sorry you are going through this. I went through similar with my DM siblings - I had POA thankfully but had to get lawyers involved as they were harassing me and also the staff constantly. Feel free to drop me a private message and I can provide more info - don't want to say too much publicly.