82 year old grandmother with health issues has booked a holiday with her friend who has suspected dementia to spain

[LovingLurker]

My lovely grandmother who I am very close to has booked a holiday to Spain with her friend who lives next door and has been her best friend for many years. Her friend is seeing people in her home at night that are not there and forgetting things. Her son her told the doctors and she is has an appointment she thinks is for. A check up but is try and start the process of seeing if she has dementia or what’s wrong with her,My grandmother has several health issues mobility issues and a really bad leg ulcer that won’t heal, we have taken her abroad with us and take her on holiday where we are there to support, something always goes wrong , and every time she forgets some medication, such as forgetting insulin while and only realising on a cruise ship. She is on heavy medication such as a high dose of morphine too. We really don’t feel this trip is a good idea , but they paid deposit and are admiment in going despite all this. I am sure they won’t get any form of mobile to work either as they both struggle.
she said she will ask doctor if she is okay to go ? Do I call doctor with my concerns, do I just let them go ? I will also be 39 weeks pregnant and my mother her daughter is here supporting us with my toddler if I go into labour , I’m so concerned if something goes wrong we won’t be in the right set up to help her.

I doubt if they'd be able to get any!

If they could even get travel insurance (which I doubt), the cost would be prohibitive.

It’s selfish. If anything goes wrong you and your mum will be expected to sort it all out and try to get grandma home. I know some people want to still travel when they are elderly, but the fact that younger relatives have to deal with the fall out is not ok. I would be telling her this to be frank.

The issue isn't that they are elderly, but that they have health issues.

You sound like a lovely grand daughter who does a lot for your dgm. This story is bringing to mind the grandmother who went on a last family holiday to Florida last year and ended up in hospital with no or inadequate cover and the cost and stress being huge. I think the only thing you can do for DGM is try to help make sure she has comprehensive cover.

Does the other woman have a diagnosis, family support, social care support? Raising concerns that she’s at risk with those parties or her GP if you know it may be an idea. She may not have capacity to make informed decisions about travel and the consequences including having an appropriate carer though it’s probably more likely both of them are just in denial that anything could go wrong.

I am sure I read a news story somewhere where the holiday insurance refused to pay out because of an undisclosed medical issue that had nothing to do with why the person needed medical treatment on holiday. Either she discloses everything or she may as well put the cost towards crowdfunding.
I am sorry OP, it’s a worry for you.

And I have a lot of sympathy for this point of view. But then - equally - they need to be able to sort themselves out if something unexpected happens. And this is where it all unravels - at least in my experience. I had a similarish situation with my own mother; a friend asked her to go away and booked all the flights. But my mother had only taken out the most rudimentary insurance which obviously didn’t cover her various health conditions and so, when she was admitted to a foreign hospital, I was deluged with calls for assistance (both while she was there and afterwards as they demanded payment). And I had two small kids at the time and neither the time nor the patience for it, but had to sort it out. And I think that should be the rule for anyone, really (young or old) - if you’re okay to go on these travels, you need to be okay to deal with the many routine things that can go awry while you’re there.

And - to carry on with my rant (!) - generally all of this can be sorted via insurance cover. But the actual cost of adequate cover for an octogenarian with health issues is usually very high (sometimes as much as the cost of the holiday). But they’re often not prepared to pay (like my own mother!) and expect others to step in when it goes wrong. “It’s not fair,” she said, “they say some people get insurance for £18”. But those people will be 25 and not have had a stroke!

They will be able to get travel insurance with existing conditions. What they cant get is insurance if there are open referrals and awaiting diagnosis for something.

I wouldnt have thought they can get a GP to say whether they are fit to travel, I was told very firmly by my own surgery that GPs dont do this, and on a thread on here posters said the same. Perhaps a private GP would do a fit to fly letter

I think I would be inclined to just take the passport away and feign ignorance.

Well not really , because I take care of many aspects of my grandmothers life , on holidays she has been away with us and things have gone wrong it’s on me to organise her medication , call doctors , and sort out the insurance . She asks me to get several quotes. I spend the day atleast twice a week with her and it usually involves trips to the shop admin , calls or take she needs me to do. So while she maybe 82 , if something goes wrong it will fall on me to sort out , my mum doesn’t really understand how to sort all this stuff out .and usually I am happy to do it . But I will be 39 weeks pregnant with a toddler. I do not have the capacity to be on hand to assist if one of them get lost or have a fall or get sick , and from experience it always happens.

The main concern is that if this lady does have dementia, the sudden change to her environment will significantly confuse her. I'd be very worried about this as a professional. I'd worry about delirium and her going missing or etc. Does this other lady have capacity around the holiday? Capacity means can she understand the information, weigh up risk, retain the information and communicate her decision. If she lacks insight into her dementia, she may well lack capacity, as it would mean she can't understand the risks of going. It's worth a chat with your GP.

I understand the worries about your gran, but she is presumably of sound mind. Unfortunately an adult with capacity is legally allowed to make unwise decisions.

her friend doesn’t believe anything is wrong with her . She is still in denial , but she is seeing people in her home at night and a few others things, currently her son has called the doctor anonymously as she refuses to go , and they have asked her to come in for an annual check up to start the process of checking dementia, or some medical condition of the sort. So she definitely won’t be declaring it to the travel insurance because she believes she is fine. Usually I manage to get my man a good travel insurance , make sure all her conditions are disclosed ect .

She really isn’t well , her friend , I don’t believe she should even be living on her own at this point, but it took her son a long time to refer her to the doctors , she is basically family to me , my “aunty “ growing up and I know for sure she isn’t well. It’s very sad, and I do feel awful because they just want to enjoy them selves , all I really want is for them to do that but for some people who can care for them to be there if anything goes wrong but unfortunately myself and my mum just do not have the capacity right now

But I will be 39 weeks pregnant with a toddler. I do not have the capacity to be on hand to assist if one of them get lost or have a fall or get sick , and from experience it always happens.

And this is it! If one of your kids wanted to go on, say, a school trip, there’d be a clause saying “if child is ill/something happens, you need to be able to come and get her”. Which is entirely fair enough. But, equally, you get to say whether or not said child goes! Whereas in my experience, elderly people (at least the ones in my life!) always expect the 24/7 backup, but don’t have to ask beforehand whether you are willing or able to sign up for it.

@historyrepeatzi responded at the bottom :) sorry I wasn’t sure how to reply to an actual comment at first

I don't know how to link it, but this booklet has some useful advice. I'd reiterate seeing your GP, though they can't stop people from flying I don't think, only recommend fitness to travel. But some elderly people listen more to their GP!

@WimpoleHatreaponded at bottom :)

My Nan essentially raised me , and I believe as she always looked out for me while being young and even an adult , it’s my job to look
out for her when she is no longer able too,

i have had a really long chat with her , and she is thinking about it, she said she hadn’t thought how they would manage if someone got sick or if they couldn’t get there phone to work. I have suggested I plan a getaway in the UK for them and she is open to this but she wants to think about it . Fingers crossed

@Ladamesansmercithank you so much , this is what I’ve been thinking if she still decides to go , she said she would ask her GP if she was fit to travel

If they haven't booked yet then a trip in the UK is the obvious solution. Much less risky if things go wrong

They booked and paid deposit ,

I guess the OP might get involved if her grandmother became seriously ill, such as possibly unable to communicate after a stroke, someone will then have to organise insurance to cover medical costs.

My dad died suddenly while on holiday in France and my mother was repatriated by the insurance company back home very quickly, leaving dad’s body in France until a death certificate was released. My mum was understandable devastated and not really able to make all the necessary decisions on her own so my siblings and I rallied round to help her deal with all the different agencies.

The insurance company were fantastic, covered all the costs in full and helping us with the paperwork needed to bring dad home, even giving mum some cash for the journey home as all their travellers cheques and credit card were in dads name! It made me aware of the need for comprehensive travel insurance with a reputable company that has good reviews, I never just go with the cheapest.

@AThousandPiecesInAPuzzle I’m sorry to hear about this . This must have been really difficult, glad they had cover to assist them.

I also don’t really think it’s a nerve to expect me to sort it out, I think my Nan has been though a lot loosing her husband and son in recent years, and her thinking has changed , she isn’t herself any more and she has become more reliant and expectant of us, but given her age I almost think it’s natural. She is also does alot for me and is brilliant with my daughter . So I see it as give and take but in this instance I can’t give .

If they've already got travel insurance, they might be able to get the deposit back if there's a good reason to cancel. (That's why it's a good idea to get travel insurance as soon as you book and pay the deposit.)