Practical suggestions to support parent who has capacity but is beginning to make poor decisions.

[Radiatorvalves]

Hello all!

My dad is 85 and while he’s in pretty good health for his age, I’m getting increasingly concerned about him. He’s made a couple of poor decisions recently (there’s a separate thread about a roofer scamming him) and I need to think about how best to support him without totally undermining him.

He’s not got dementia but is quite deaf and is becoming more gullible/suggestible. I also live 200 miles away.

I've asked him to run any major expenditure past me - say over £300 - and he’s agreed. That said, he agreed to that before the above mentioned scam.

I have a Power of Attorney but it’s not been activated (and I don’t think we yet need to take that step.

Things I’ve been thinking about:

1. I’ve asked him to put together a list of important info and where we can find things. He’s agreed to do this, but will likely need support as he’s disorganized and takes forever to get things done. Will, financial matters and investments (that won’t take long!)
2. A list of passwords. My brother helps with IT and can support with this.
3. Funeral plans. This may not yet be necesssry (hopefully!) but he lost his older brother and sister in their 80s so important to be prepared.
4. What should happen if his health were to deteriorate. Stay where he is /move nearer me.
5. He comes to visit roughly every 6 weeks, but over the past year I’ve been going to see him too. I think you get more of an idea of how things are on his territory.

Does anyone have any additional suggestions? Or maybe there’s another thread covering this subject.

Thanks in advance.

Spreadsheet with all accounts, bonds, shares etc and passwords.

Would really activate the POA now as it won't get any better.

It all started with In-Laws with potential scamming, losing creditcard after creditcard etc and continued on a downward slant. We eventually moved them into assisted living near us. They were both masking it at home and as soon as we moved them it completely fell apart. We took away the landline as they would answer all the scam calls.

Is he looking after himself - washing clothes and himself? Eating properly? Does he drive? Is he mobile?

Activate the financial poa now

I went into my dad's bank with him and he agreed for me to be a co-signatory to his current account (signed a few forms). This helped in keeping an eye on ins and outs, meant we could organise payment for gardeners, and then later carers via online banking.

Thanks for responding.

he’s in good health and mobile. He can walk (slowly) several km and plays golf. He drives and is safe (I’ve told him I will tell him if I have concerns). He cooks (not ready meals) and is ok on the cleanliness (personal and house) front. I’m not naive and think things could deteriorate quickly. I’ll look into the PoA again and think about how and when to raise.

i think it might be sensible to suggest we go through bank statements to check all in order and he’s not paying out for inappropriate stuff. Might be as simple as a direct debit he’s forgotten about but would be sendin LHH e precaution.

It's very difficult, OP. My dad is very similar although a bit older, and I fear that he might have the early signs of dementia. He is still fiercely independent, though, and very sensitive to any suggestion that he might not be able to make his own decisions about stuff, so we have to tread carefully.

If you say he's susceptible to scammers, I wouldn't be getting him to write lists of passwords down anywhere.....

Maybe have a spare key with a trusted neighbour . You can be POA on the bank account without him looseing controol as my sister is mine and she has access to my account .I'm only in my 40s but lost some of my cognitive abilities after a stroke . I also have a binder with all my important document kept together in, maybe this is something that could be useful to you.
Good luck.

There are several trusted neighbors which is great. I think I’ll explore what can be done in the account - Lloyd’s. He’s definitely down as a vulnerable customer due to a couple of issues, so I’m interested to see what they suggest.

I agree with PP - activate the finance POA now. You don't have to use it, and it doesn't stop him managing his own finances - but it saves a delay (that could easily be a month or more) when you do need it.

Lloyds bank were very good at dealing with the PoA for my mother - they have a dedicated PoA team. If it's been registered recently enough that you were able to set up an online activation code you can simply go online and generate a code to allow them to view the PoA, so it can all be done over the phone - no need to go into a branch.

MIL is with Lloyds and DH and has had third party access to her account for years.

You don’t “activate” a POA any more - you can start using it when DF gives his consent for you to make decisions for him, or when he loses capacity to make those decisions. He may not be ready for that yet. MIL has done that for DH.

He’d probably be insulted by the idea of a careline/falls alarm but it’s better to have one and not use it than not have one when you need it.

Thanks for this. Do you know if you can have 3rd party access (by agreement with Dad) without reference to the PoA? I think he might be up for that. Seems less drastic and a move that we can use to help/support him.

You can use the power of attorney for finance even if you aren’t taking over because of loss of capacity. I have registered my mums so i can log in and see account on the app and am authorised to make payments for her, mostly she manages her own finances but sometimes asks me to make transfers. You can do that now just to monitor things.

I'm on here all the time banging on about the virtues of sheltered housing but this is another case where I think it might be worth exploring? I know he might not be keen on moving especially to somewhere branded as 'for the elderly' or a retirement complex but honestly I think they're great. Some points in favour:

-It's very much not a care home, you live in your own flat independently which you can decorate as you like, and can opt in or out to most or all of the care and support elements provided as per need and preference.
-So long as you avoid the very fancy 'retirement villages' build by developers which come with sky high charges and look for schemes run by housing trusts or the council, it's often very affordable. You can usually buy your own flat or rent at a capped affordable rate.
-the service charge usually includes some or all of your bills (internet and TV package usually separate but council tax, heating, electric often included) and also a maintenance element. Great for older people who are starting to get a bit confused or anxious about finances and looking after their own property as it's just one regular payment and everything is then handled by the management, makes them much less vulnerable to scammers phoning to say they're from the council or the gas board and demanding money, or people ringing the doorbell to say the roof's caving or the gutters falling off and demanding cash there and then.
-If you go for an 'extra care' facility there will be on site carers and also cleaning, laundry service, meal service etc available to buy in at a cost, very easy and saves having to arrange all this privately. If there's a communal garden then the scheme arranges gardeners from the service charge although if residents enjoy and are up to gardening they can often have their own little patch to grow things in.
-On site management (not usually 24/7 mind) provides that bit of extra reassurance and checking, and security is usually very good. Often the flats come equipped with red cord alarms and panic buzzers in case of falls as well as grab rails and all that good stuff.
-There's usually a nice sense of community which you can be a part of as much or as little as you want, usually there is a communal lounge and management or a residents committee will arrange events and outings, tea mornings, quizzes and bingo, film night, mini bus trip to nearest city or so on. Just to reduce that sense of isolation in the elderly esp if family aren't nearby.

I'd really consider it OP, I've had relatives in schemes run by Anchor and Orbit and honestly they've been a godsend, kept my relatives living independently and happily way longer than they'd have managed in normal housing...

I agree with Noctua.

And I'd just agree with your dad it would be a good idea if you could do some of the financial legwork when needed. Then go and visit the bank with the POA - you'll likely need an appointment - and get yourself set up with a debit card etc. I really wouldn't make heavy weather of it. I didn't do anything with my mum's poa debit card for several months except log in to her account and reassure her when she panicked she had no money. The trouble with a £300 trigger is that so many people get manipulated into multiple small payments and subscriptions that they wouldn't otherwise choose to do, adding up to a lot overall.6

The bad decisions are one issue. There’s also inability to make decisions and obsessing over specific decisions.
Get the PoA so that you ‘can help with anything he needs doing or checking’. It’s not checking up on him so much as saving him a bit of effort.
One of my elderlies is currently obsessing about her will. She’s rewritten it several times, and some of the wording isn’t as kind as she used to be- she’s acting out grudges and irritations. It’s made worse imo by her getting lawyers involved each time.

If you have a LPOA for finance, check how he agreed for it to be set up - when applied for the options are immediate, or when he loses capacity. Immediate is preferable as proving to financial institutions he has lost capacity is difficult.

Hopefully his says immediate, in which case all you need to do is take it down to a bank branch and get yourself added to the account.

I have one for my elderly DM - she very much has capacity but using it has made both our lives easier - I've done most of the things on your list in discussion with her but I don't need a list of her passwords, bought her chosen funeral plan online, can buy stuff she wants for her etc.

I've also got the LPOA for Health registered at the GP, and a letter to say they can share her info with me (they wanted both). This is also invaluable as she finds it hard navigating how to make a GP appointment now, and I've been able to get her reviewed quickly when she has a health setback.

FInally if being disorganised, getting more gullible and making poor decisions is all out of character for him, he probably does need a memory check at the GP.

As several others have said, get the financial POA. It might seem simpler to speak to the bank short term but longer term this is the solution you need.